No Support for iOS 9.#?

Discussions around the iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch versions of the LDS Tools Application.
cameronpeterson
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Re: No Support for iOS 9.#?

Postby cameronpeterson » Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:32 pm

russellhltn wrote:
timothyjhill wrote:Why do I need iOS 10+ to run the latest LDS Tools update

At some point, Apple doesn't let you update apps for older versions. I'm not sure if that's the case here or n

I don't believe this to be the case here. The same thing has been happening on my iPhone 4s iOS 9.3.5 LDS tools version 3.3.1

However, LDS Tools works just fine when I just downloaded it from the app store (you have to have an apple ID that has downloaded the older versions in the past) and installed it on an

iPhone 3, iOS 4.2.1 LDS Tools ver. 2.0.3
iPod Touch Gen 4, iOS 6.1.6 LDS Tools ver 2.4.3


timothyjhill wrote:why will my old version of LDS Tools (3.3.1 on iOS 9.3.5) no longer sync since the 3.5 version has been released?

The servers that ran HT/VT where shutdown. New services were created to support Ministering using a higher level of security for communication.

The shutdown of HT/VT is likely what's causing the older versions of LDS Tools on iOS to fail.


This seems to be more likely since the other two versions that I checked that "work" did not have any Home Teaching or Visiting Teaching functions. I am told that the developers only support the current version and the one previous. Therefore only 3.5 and 3.4

My phone is perfectly fine for me and I don't feel like upgrading just to be able to use LDS Tools. It is a pain to have to use Safari and use Leader and Clerk resources everytime I want to look up an address or phone number. I'm not sure how long it would take to fix the problem in 3.3 but it seems foolish not to do so since there are indeed people who don't waste money of the latest version of the iPhone (you know, something the church seems to encourage, being thrifty and all).

scgallafent
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Re: No Support for iOS 9.#?

Postby scgallafent » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:00 pm

cameronpeterson wrote:I am told that the developers only support the current version and the one previous. Therefore only 3.5 and 3.4

That is only the previous and current operating system versions -- iOS 11 and iOS 10.

russellhltn
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Re: No Support for iOS 9.#?

Postby russellhltn » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:50 pm

cameronpeterson wrote:I'm not sure how long it would take to fix the problem in 3.3 but it seems foolish not to do so since there are indeed people who don't waste money of the latest version of the iPhone (you know, something the church seems to encourage, being thrifty and all).

Yes, and part of thrift at the church level is weighing the cost of employee's time (or at least the "lost opportunity" cost) against the number of people who would benefit. The product managers have access to information that tells them how many members are impacted.

Also, the church would have to justify to Apple why they switched to using depreciated (nearly obsolete) API calls instead of conforming to current practices.

On a side note, if I'm reading it right, the last update to iOS 9 for security was two years ago. Just because it still runs doesn't mean it's a good idea to do so.
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cameronpeterson
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Re: No Support for iOS 9.#?

Postby cameronpeterson » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:15 pm

I understand that there has to be a cost benefit analysis for work to be done. That's why I mentioned that I wasn't sure how easy (or hard) a fix this would be. I just wish there had been some warning so that I would have never tried uninstalling and then reinstalling the app. The other isssue is that it seems we are just guessing what the problems are and no information has been given as to what is really happening and if anyone has even looked at some sort of fix and if so how much time would it take. The only answer seems to be "we only support the last two iOS's" With that policy in place how do we know anyone has even explored the issue?

Assuming "fixing" the problems would take too long and are not a good investment of time vs. value then what about other options? For instance, would it be possible (and fairly easy) that instead of a phone with 9.3.5 downloading version 3.3.1 from the app store that it is changed so that it downloads the version just before the features were added that are now causing issues? I'm not sure if that is 3.2, 3.1 or earlier but I'll take even 2.4.3 (which I know still works) just so that I can look up peoples names and addresses in my ward. Or another possibility is just removing the feature completely in 3.3.1 that is causing the issue. Wouldn't that take much less time and therefore have a much, much lower cost vs. benefit?

I think people would just like to know that options have been considered and looked at.

Perhaps my security isn't up to date on my good ol' iPhone 4s but then again who would want anything from someone who uses one? I don't do banking, social media or even e-mail using my phone but it sure was nice for my calling to quickly be able to look up somones address or phone number without having to add the entire ward to my contacts. Maybe I'll need to start carrying an iPod touch as well just so I can have some access. I have over 50 of those so if that ends up being the only solution for others who have iPhone 4's feel free to contact me and I'll donate one to you so you can do your calling more effectively. (I'll just deduct the cost of them from my usual fast offering.... :lol: )

I'm kidding by the way on deducting the cost but I'm serious about donating one if it helps your calling.

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Re: No Support for iOS 9.#?

Postby sbradshaw » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:47 pm

cameronpeterson wrote:Assuming "fixing" the problems would take too long and are not a good investment of time vs. value then what about other options? For instance, would it be possible (and fairly easy) that instead of a phone with 9.3.5 downloading version 3.3.1 from the app store that it is changed so that it downloads the version just before the features were added that are now causing issues? I'm not sure if that is 3.2, 3.1 or earlier but I'll take even 2.4.3 (which I know still works) just so that I can look up peoples names and addresses in my ward. Or another possibility is just removing the feature completely in 3.3.1 that is causing the issue. Wouldn't that take much less time and therefore have a much, much lower cost vs. benefit?

Unfortunately, the App Store controls which version of the app can be downloaded on your device. It only allows a user to install the latest version of the app that supports your iOS version (for iOS 9, that's 3.3.1). Because of the way the App Store works, developers aren't able to specify which devices will get which version of the app, nor are they able to upload an update that will only go to old devices.
Samuel Bradshaw • If you desire to serve God, you are called to the work.

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Re: No Support for iOS 9.#?

Postby russellhltn » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:23 pm

There seems to be two things going on here:
  • The old app won't work with the HT/VT system shutdown (see other posts).
  • The new app won't work on iOS9.
Given what sbradshaw has indicated above, at this point, the only way out is to re-do the new app to include iOS9.

I'm sure looking back there are things that could have been done differently to have a better outcome. But that would have required testing to see if the old app would still run without HT/VT (it doesn't), as well as finding out that the new app doesn't work on iOS9 and then coming up with a solution - such as a new version of the old app. But all of those options take time. And I'm suspecting that given the hard deadline handed down from above, time is what the developers didn't have.

And note that it's not just iOS. Android users with versions prior to 5 have been cut off due to the inability to support modern security standards on that OS.
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cameronpeterson
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Re: No Support for iOS 9.#?

Postby cameronpeterson » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:08 pm

sbradshaw wrote:Unfortunately, the App Store controls which version of the app can be downloaded on your device. It only allows a user to install the latest version of the app that supports your iOS version (for iOS 9, that's 3.3.1). Because of the way the App Store works, developers aren't able to specify which devices will get which version of the app, nor are they able to upload an update that will only go to old devices.


Thank you for everyones excellent explanations. I've become aware of the limitations of the app store in the last few months and it seems to be very frustrating. I can only hope that one of the several lawsuits against Apple regarding monopoly issues (and some others) succeed and provide better options.

So one last question. If it only allows a user to install the latest version of the app that supports your iOS version (for iOS 9, that's 3.3.1) but 3.3.1. doesn't really "support" iOS version 9 now, but lets say 3.1 does then wouldn't 3.1 now be the latest version that supports iOS 9 and by explaining that to Apple the change would be made because of their own policies and not because it's a developer choice?

I freely admit I don't really understand how the App store works and I guess there just isn't another place where I can get a version of 3.1 because no one wants to jeopardize ticking Apple off and getting removed from the App store right? I sure liked it better in the older days of the computer when you could make choices and choose what worked rather than having to accept whatever Apple decides to give you.

I miss LDS Tools on my phone. I'm not afraid to admit it. It was a very useful program and it helped make my calling of Elders quorum secretary easier. When you have a phone as slow as mine and with a short life battery, trying to work through Leader and Clerk resources takes soooooo much more time.

I'll lower my desk flag to half mast for a few days. RIP LDS Tools 3.3.1 We loved you little buddy.

I remember when the developers just did it as an open source project on their own time... those were the days.

peace and joy to you and all your families.

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Re: No Support for iOS 9.#?

Postby russellhltn » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:19 am

cameronpeterson wrote:If it only allows a user to install the latest version of the app that supports your iOS version (for iOS 9, that's 3.3.1) but 3.3.1. doesn't really "support" iOS version 9 now, but lets say 3.1 does then wouldn't 3.1 now be the latest version that supports iOS 9 and by explaining that to Apple the change would be made because of their own policies and not because it's a developer choice?

LDS Tools 3.3.1 still supports iOS9, but as this post indicates, 3.3.1 is confused by the change in church services and can no longer sync. I doubt if 3.1 would fair any better.

If 3.3.1 still worked (other than it couldn't get HT/VT/Ministering information), then perhaps the entry in the app store could be updated to indicate what version is appropriate for iOS9. But alas, it wouldn't do any good since 3.3.1 doesn't sync.
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sbradshaw
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Re: No Support for iOS 9.#?

Postby sbradshaw » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:34 am

russellhltn wrote:There seems to be two things going on here:
  • The old app won't work with the HT/VT system shutdown (see other posts).
  • The new app won't work on iOS9.
Given what sbradshaw has indicated above, at this point, the only way out is to re-do the new app to include iOS9.

I'm sure looking back there are things that could have been done differently to have a better outcome. But that would have required testing to see if the old app would still run without HT/VT (it doesn't), as well as finding out that the new app doesn't work on iOS9 and then coming up with a solution - such as a new version of the old app. But all of those options take time. And I'm suspecting that given the hard deadline handed down from above, time is what the developers didn't have.

An alternative solution, besides updating the app to support iOS 9 and the latest ministering changes, would be to turn on the HT/VT service again, and have it send an empty set of results to any devices that try to connect. Hypothetically, it would behave as if a ward hadn't entered any home or visiting teaching data into Leader and Clerk Resources. I don't know if that would be feasible, either, not knowing the full constraints, but if there is time and budget, it may be an easier solution than updating the app.
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cameronpeterson
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Re: No Support for iOS 9.#?

Postby cameronpeterson » Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:47 pm

sbradshaw wrote:An alternative solution, besides updating the app to support iOS 9 and the latest ministering changes, would be to turn on the HT/VT service again, and have it send an empty set of results to any devices that try to connect. Hypothetically, it would behave as if a ward hadn't entered any home or visiting teaching data into Leader and Clerk Resources. I don't know if that would be feasible, either, not knowing the full constraints, but if there is time and budget, it may be an easier solution than updating the app.


Awesome thinking outside the box. I love it.

I have been told that the developers will talk and see if there is a small fix to get it working. Thank you Devs for "leaving the 99 and helping the 1 for a short time." ;-) It's such a useful program to help me serve and be a better minister.


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