Ministering Reporting

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showseason
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Ministering Reporting

Postby showseason » Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:41 pm

I got this from our ward's EQ Secretary:
"We noticed a little glitch in the ministering reporting when a brethren is paired with a sister. Whenever we mark a brother having had an interview, it also marks that the Sister has also been interviewed for the RS section. We noticed last night that Brother ----- had not been interview but had been marked. It was because his wife, Sister -------- had been marked on the RS side and it also marked the Brother on the EQ side. We tested this on some other couples and it did the same. We didn't know if this was known by the clerks, the Stake or been identified by the Church yet."

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Re: Ministering Reporting

Postby scgallafent » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:04 pm

That is working correctly. The question being answered is "was the companionship interviewed?"

From question 21at https://www.lds.org/ministering/ministering-faq: "Elders quorum and Relief Society presidencies keep a record of the interviews they hold with ministering brothers and sisters. Leaders indicate the month interviews are held and who participated in them. They report a companionship as interviewed if at least one member of the companionship is interviewed during the quarter." (Emphasis mine)

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Re: Ministering Reporting

Postby jdlessley » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:33 pm

Additionally, see Handbook 2, 9.5.4, (especially second paragraph) and Handbook 2, 7.4.4, (especially second paragraph).

Note the handbook addresses that both companions should preferably be interviewed together whether the interview is with the RS or with the EQ.
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showseason
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Re: Ministering Reporting

Postby showseason » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:46 pm

The EQ Secretary got back to me with a bit of clarification on this.

He says:
"The problem is that, as example, Brother and Sister Smith visit two sisters and Brother Smith and Peter Jones visit 5 different families. If Sister Smith is interviewed, then the Smith/Jones companionship is also marked as interviewed, even though she may have no knowledge of the 5 families they visited. This only works if the same companionship's visit the same people. Is my thinking correct here?"

The secretary has tested others like this and they all turned out the same.
Last edited by scgallafent on Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Fix names that didn't get replaced in the original paste of the message

scgallafent
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Re: Ministering Reporting

Postby scgallafent » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:04 pm

OK. I have looked at your data and I see what is going on. The problem is that the Relief Society is entering the data incorrectly.

Brother Smith and Sister Smith are in a companionship and assigned to visit two sisters. Brother Smith and Brother Jones are in a separate companionship and are assigned to visit five families (not related to the two sisters).

When the Relief Society interviewed Sister Smith, they marked that they had visited with both Brother Smith and Sister Smith, but they didn't actually visit with Brother Smith. If you look at the Relief Society ministering assignments, you will see that both Brother and Sister Smith are marked as having been interviewed.

Because the Relief Society reported that Brother has been interviewed, that affects all companionships that he participates in. The answer to "has someone in the Smith/Jones companionship been interviewed" is yes because the Relief Society reported that Brother Smith has been interviewed.

If you remove the check mark indicating the Brother Smith has been interviewed, your issue will be resolved. It would probably be good to ask the Relief Society to only mark the sister if she is the one they interview.

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Re: Ministering Reporting

Postby russellhltn » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:20 pm

Is a change being discussed? It seems to me that either the RS shouldn't be allowed to mark Brother Smith as interviewed, or at least that check mark shouldn't flow to EQ companionships. While there's a certain amount of appeal to having both EQ and RS ministering as a unified function, it seems like it would cause more problems then it solves.
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Re: Ministering Reporting

Postby scgallafent » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:28 pm

There isn't a change being discussed that I am aware of. There are legitimate cases where the Relief Society would interview Brother and Sister Smith together and you would want the record to flow to the companionship that was created in the elders quorum. Blocking the Relief Society from recording an interview would have prevented the issue here, but it would also make things more difficult for units where the Relief Society and elders quorum are working together to interview mixed companionships.

There are other cases where the Relief Society only marked one member of a companionship as having been interviewed, so they understand the general concept. I'm not sure why they marked both members of this companionship as interviewed when they selectively marked interviews in other companionships.

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Re: Ministering Reporting

Postby russellhltn » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:48 pm

scgallafent wrote:There are other cases where the Relief Society only marked one member of a companionship as having been interviewed, so they understand the general concept. I'm not sure why they marked both members of this companionship as interviewed when they selectively marked interviews in other companionships.

Quite possibly, in those cases the RS only interviewed the sister. But for this particular companionship, they interviewed with both of them.

scgallafent wrote:There isn't a change being discussed that I am aware of. There are legitimate cases where the Relief Society would interview Brother and Sister Smith together and you would want the record to flow to the companionship that was created in the elders quorum. Blocking the Relief Society from recording an interview would have prevented the issue here, but it would also make things more difficult for units where the Relief Society and elders quorum are working together to interview mixed companionships.

Yes, I see where "A married couple assigned to minister together can meet with elders quorum leaders, Relief Society leaders, or both."

However, when the RS interviewed Brother Smith, it shouldn't have flowed to his other companionship in the EQ. Likewise, if EQ interviews Sister Smith, it shouldn't flow to another companionship she might have in RS. If the answer is that RS shouldn't have recorded their interview with Brother Smith, then they shouldn't have been able to check that box. I'm of the belief that it's easier to teach computers than people. More so when we're dealing with volunteers with significant turnover. I'd think some kind of change is warranted.
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Re: Ministering Reporting

Postby scgallafent » Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:29 pm

Since a married couple may meet with just the elders quorum or Relief Society, both organizations need to be able to record an interview with either member of the companionship. Blocking the Relief Society from recording an interview with Brother Smith forces them to ask the elders quorum to record the interview for the brother in the companionship if they have taken on the responsibility of holding a ministering interview with Brother Smith.

russellhltn wrote:If the answer is that RS shouldn't have recorded their interview with Brother Smith...

I based my response on this statement in the follow-up message:
If Sister Smith is interviewed, then the Smith/Jones companionship is also marked as interviewed, even though she may have no knowledge of the 5 families they visited.

It doesn't sound to me like the Relief Society interviewed the husband in the companionship.

The original design supposes that in a ministering interview with Sister Smith, there will be a discussion about all of her companionships. As a result, the interview is associated with the member, not the companionship. I know a guy :) and I'll see what he thinks. As always, feedback gets it logged in the appropriate place.

I do know that the business rules were developed well above the developers, so that is also where a recommendation for a change to those rules would need to go to consider a change.

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Re: Ministering Reporting

Postby russellhltn » Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:48 pm

scgallafent wrote:I based my response on this statement in the follow-up message:
If Sister Smith is interviewed, then the Smith/Jones companionship is also marked as interviewed, even though she may have no knowledge of the 5 families they visited.

It doesn't sound to me like the Relief Society interviewed the husband in the companionship.

Ok, I missed that. But based on your response, had they interviewed both, we'd still have a problem.


scgallafent wrote:The original design supposes that in a ministering interview with Sister Smith, there will be a discussion about all of her companionships.

Normally, I'd say that's a valid assumption. (But you know what they say about "assume".) But maybe not so good in the case of cross EQ/RS interviewing. Perhaps a pop-up asking about the other assignment would be appropriate.

However.... re-reading the Handbook "A married couple assigned to minister together can meet with elders quorum leaders, Relief Society leaders, or both." I'm not seeing anything that suggests that it's acceptable for the RS to interview an all-elder companionship. So, it seems like flagging the Brother Smith/Brother Jones companionship based on a RS interview is a bit iffy from a policy standpoint. It most certainly wouldn't be allowed if Brother Smith wasn't also in a companionship with his wife.

This should make for a fun conversation. ;)
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