Meeting house Video Distribution over HDMI/ Cat6

Discussions around the satellite system and video distribution.
bcourtenaya
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Re: Meeting house Video Distribution over HDMI/ Cat6

Postby bcourtenaya » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:14 am

I'm sure FM would have helped if they had the funds or staffing but they really didn't. They were aware of what we have done. What they told me was that as long as our modification looked professional, i.e. it looked like it was suppose to be that way, they were ok with it. What they don't want is cabling dangling from the ceiling or other eye sores. So basically, if the stake president approved it then .... Each FM group may be different so individual mileage may vary....

Gary_Miller
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Re: Meeting house Video Distribution over HDMI/ Cat6

Postby Gary_Miller » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:23 am

Why not that way you spend LUBA Funds and not FM Funds. If I were the FM manager I be more than willing to let you spend your funds instead of mine on something I should be responsible for.

Of course it may mean that one of the wards has to ask the youth to participate in funding youth camps and/or do a fund riser. But why should you or FM care doesn't effect you directly.

Don't mind me I just don't like to see inappropriate use of LUBA funds. Nor do I like to see the youth programs suffering because of the inappropriate use of LUBA funds. I'm just odd I guess.

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johnshaw
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Re: Meeting house Video Distribution over HDMI/ Cat6

Postby johnshaw » Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:11 am

You are not odd Gary... There is a great need to define this a bit better, the handbook limits LUBA funds usage, FM is always running 1.5 years behind in budgeting and other stakes needs can interfere with your own stake [even if you planned for it 1.5 years ago]. FMG makes different decisions for the same thing (meaning a Stake President in California could get, 'sure, as long as it looks professional', and one in Alabama might say, 'well, if the stake pays for it only we can do the work', and another FMG might say 'NO, No Dice, not on my watch') Appeals to a General Authority are the only recompense for a SP which a SP must guard (can't go to the well to many times if you really want to get things done)
“A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom.”
― Thomas Paine, Common Sense

lajackson
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Re: Meeting house Video Distribution over HDMI/ Cat6

Postby lajackson » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:30 am

I am resisting the temptation to start a new topic on FM and funding issues, because it has been discussed at length already in other topics. There is not much we will be able to do about it here at the Forum. Those matters are left to our priesthood leaders.

So this is just a reminder that this particular topic is about Meeting house Video Distribution over HDMI/ Cat6, and that is where we ought to focus our efforts in this particular discussion.

Thanks for understanding.

Gary_Miller
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Re: Meeting house Video Distribution over HDMI/ Cat6

Postby Gary_Miller » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:57 pm

lajackson wrote:I am resisting the temptation to start a new topic on FM and funding issues, because it has been discussed at length already in other topics.

Thanks for resisting the temptation as this is the proper place to discuss where the funds should come from as well. I know this issue has been discussed at length, and it will continue to be discussed at length in ever topic that brings up using LUBA for equipment and materials that should be purchased using FM funds.

lajackson wrote:There is not much we will be able to do about it here at the Forum.

Yes we can, its called awareness. There are many great individuals doing the best they can that are not aware of the funding guidelines so they make suggestions to others about using the LUBA in order to accomplish what should be accomplished through other channels using other funds. One would not us FO funds or Missionary funds to purchase such things but have no problems using the LUBA while putting strains on individuals and families in order to send their youth to camps.

lajackson wrote:Those matters are left to our priesthood leaders.

Your right and the guidelines for deciding these matters were established by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve when the budget allowance was established. They even provided training on the matter. They provided more information in the current Hand Books, along with training on proper use of the Hand Books. However, there seems to be some Priesthood leaders that ether are not reading the handbooks, not understanding what was they say, or just don't care to follow the Hand books because the instructions don't fit their desires. Maybe we all should just start following the established guidelines.

lajackson wrote:So this is just a reminder that this particular topic is about Meeting house Video Distribution over HDMI/ Cat6, and that is where we ought to focus our efforts in this particular discussion.

What funds should be used to purchase the equipment discussed in the tread has allot to do with the topic.

lajackson wrote:Thanks for understanding.

Thanks for understanding.

davidscott59
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Re: Meeting house Video Distribution over HDMI/ Cat6

Postby davidscott59 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:20 am

This post was about a year ago. I wonder how the sytem is working now? Did anyone speak to what you do about digital latency? For instance what if you have live video in the chapel, and you have projectors back in the cultural hall. There will be about a half second audio delay to the video/audio in the back room. How did you address this issue? We had thought about installing HDMI but could not figure out how to inexpensively fix the delay. Additionally, it did not make sense since the church servers do not handle HD, the video quality to other buildings would be back to SD anyway. So until the church goes all digital, it did not make sense for us to spend the money to do, so we stuck the SD video. Which to me is not very good. but the sony EVI-70 is what is recommended by the leaders.
Nice white paper though....

michaelfish
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Re: Meeting house Video Distribution over HDMI/ Cat6

Postby michaelfish » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:31 pm

I just wanted to add my two cents worth on HD broadcasting of Stake Conference.

Most of you don't realize how many issues there are when attempting to broadcast in HD. It isn't a matter of just getting a HD camera and "poof", it's done. Every single piece of the system must be able to support HD. Even after everything is in place, you may still need to deal with latency problems of the video picture lagging behind the live audio in the stake center.

My stake has enough bandwidth to support HD and I have the necessary equipment. So I took the opportunity to set up and test for HD. I went through a lot of setup, trial and error working out issues to get it working properly.

When all was said and done IMO, it just wasn't worth it.

After placing all necessary HD equipment throughout the chain to support HD and getting a great picture at the receiving building, there was only a few individuals notice the picture improvement (BTW, they needed to sit in the front rows).

My council to anyone considering the expense, retrofitting and labor to support HD is to apply your efforts to clean up what you already have. If you don't fix problems you currently have in your existing system, they'll still be there after you implement HD.

Our stake broadcasts it's stake conferences in standard definition, using Sony EVI-D70 cameras - and it looks VERY, VERY good.

It hasn't been easy but I concentrated on fixing problems, making wiring permanent, simplifying the set up, etc. For example, this past week I demonstrated to our stake clerk how it takes only 2 (two) minutes to set up one camera and start broadcasting to our other buildings. In the receiving building, it takes only 10 minutes to roll two TV sets into place, set up the projector, raise the projection screen and have the picture and sound through the building.

To me, a High Definition picture is great but a simple set-up, easy-of-use, reliability and quality are more important.

davidscott59
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Re: Meeting house Video Distribution over HDMI/ Cat6

Postby davidscott59 » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:42 pm

@ michaelfish. if you read my paragraph, you will see that I agree with you 100%. At this point in time, the church systems are not ready for HD. However, I do have to say, we need to find better quality out there than the Sony EVI-D70. I find this camera very old 80s technology, and a sub standard image. Lots of yellow hues, and a rough PTZ control.
I think we could find better quality cameras than security cameras.

bcourtenaya
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Re: Meeting house Video Distribution over HDMI/ Cat6

Postby bcourtenaya » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:28 am

Regarding how this equipment is working in the Lincoln California Stake, it is working extremely well. When I get a bit of time I need to update my paper as we did some refinements. The first major one was to place two 10 foot screens in the cutural hall with an HD projectors on the basketball hoops. This was an immediate hit! Now people don't mind nearly as much sitting in the cutural hall and they sit on the sides where they can see a big screen.

When projecting on big screens, the high def video is a major plus

A lesson learned is to use shielded cat 6 cable as it allows the video signal to travel father.

As far as the camera quality goes, we found that we had people in the stake with very high end cameras that they were more than willing to loan. The better camera does make a difference. That all said, I think it is important for a stake to have the needed equipment at least as a backup.

As to latency, when we first started out, we were using firewire from our camera. While the quality was excellent, the interface imposed about a 800-900 ms delay. I then invested in a blackmagic studio UltraStudio Mini Monitor, then later I upgraded to there Intensity Extreme. What this device does is to take an HDMI signal from a camera or satellite receiver and convert it to thunderbolt. They also have models that convert to USB 3. The result was a latency of about 100 ms. The first device runs $145 US and the second $300. Note: this HDMI input device is important because very few computers have an HDMI input. The HDMI port on most computers is only an output!

This same technology that I used in the Lincoln California Stake I first started using at the Hill Cumorah Pageant to provide back stage video to the cast of about 800. We have about 12 viewing locations for the cast. The effect has been an increase in reverence which has been felt by the audience.

My experience working at the stake level and at the Hill Cumorah Pageant has convinced me that the better the sound and video the more people will get out of the meeting. Reverence is clearly improved when you remove the distractions of lower quality video and sound. It reminds me of the difference between clean versus dirty glasses. What I'm looking at doesn't change but with clean glasses I can see more clearly.

I am attaching a couple of photos from a recent stake conference, this show the newly added 10' screens. The quality of the photo does not do justice to the quality of the picture being projected.

image.jpg
Loomis building
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image.jpg
Lincoln Stake center
(414.37 KiB) Downloaded 274 times



Side note: Due to a job change, I have moved out of California and now live in the Morgan Ut stake.

I hope this brief update is helpful. Sadly I don't seem to get notified when there are updates on this thread.

Bruce Anderson
Bcourtenaya@gmail.com
801-821-3805

pcardelli
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Re: Meeting house Video Distribution over HDMI/ Cat6

Postby pcardelli » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:58 pm

We similarly use Apple TV's but I'm very interested in your setup with the audio delivery in the other rooms. Also I have noticed some of the Samsung TVs are starting to natively support wireless Android devices, but still not at the level as AirPlay does for apple and windows devices.

Also we have HDMI over Cat5/6 splitters and have lucked out so far. You really have to be careful not all HDMI over Cat6 is the same. There are some newer wireless HDMI I have been using at work for areas we could not pull new cable, I have thought about pricing that out as well.

I have been using reflector and Air parrot, although I found that playing videos from windows over air parrot was not as reliable as playing form a newer iPhone/ipad/mac laptop. Also airplay from an iPad 3 or newer is preferred as the displayed video will fill the screen better.


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