LDSTech

Policy Question: How widely does your stake distribute the password for LDSAccess?

Discuss various issues around providing Internet access to meetinghouses.

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#21Postby johnshaw » Thu May 17, 2012 11:44 am

At this point, the bulk of the internet use for the church in a church building is by the leaders and teachers - not the rank and file members.


I say what is truly the difference when it comes to Internet Access? Leaders and teachers are the same in my building as rank and file (what a term) on a regular basis. in EQ and HPGL we don't typically have assigned teachers, RS typically does, what about teachers substituting for others, on any given Sunday any person in the ward might require access, I just truly see NO need to limit the access (of course, I don't mean Free Public... but I do mean, if I have an LDS Account I should get access) This is a very large perception change, it is revolutionary, and to MOST it is scary, but it is right... there is no doubt. When the tools come out that limit access, I'm going to encourage my Stake Presidency to ignore it, choose the 'Select All' button, and let freedom ring!
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#22Postby lajackson » Thu May 17, 2012 1:03 pm

JohnShaw wrote:(1) I find the discussion of limiting access very interesting, I have to wonder to myself, why?

(2) We rob our members of choice experiences every week if Sunday School, Primary, Nursery, Youth Leaders, RS, EQP, HPGL are unable to take advantage of media content on the Internet.

(3) In this evolution, access to the internet is the assumption, not the exception. Members expect this now just like they expect the building to have lights, or heat and/or AC.

(4) I am SAD for FM who aren't able to adjust, I am SAD for Leaders who spend so much time thinking about ways to limit access, mostly I am sad for members who aren't able to fulfill their callings well because of limitations imposed on them.

Disclaimers:
(5) Yes it is true this assumes Internet Connectivity is better than what many have. Get with it... Convince FM to up the lines,

(6) it is a general culture shift that needs to take place, . . . BTW, the LEADERS in the Church have already accepted that culture change, it is mid-level management that needs to get out of the way or be left behind.


I do not believe we are missing the mark. I believe we are seeing an anxious desire to do things meeting up against a careful consideration of matters that are decided by those who hold the keys to preside and have been given full authority to do so.

(1) Stake presidents have varying experiences. Some are trusting of technology. Others are tired of holding councils for those who abuse it. I believe this will change when there is technical accountability by requiring use of LDS Account to access Church wifi. Until then, for many the problems and disadvantages far outweigh the advantages.

(2) Media content is wonderful and is available without wifi access. It merely requires advanced planning and preparation. Qualified leaders and teachers listening to and following the Spirit will know exactly how and when to use all of the resources the Church makes available to them. Inspired leaders and teachers will also know when the clamor and excitement of the midway will overpower the Spirit and make an otherwise effective and uplifting lesson of lessor value.

(3) In our entitlement society, members expect a lot of things. Sometimes members do not respond well when leaders teach self-discipline and the need to balance even "every good thing" in our stewardship.

(4) FM, with its very limited resources, responds very well to those with keys. Those with keys make the important decisions. And lack of wifi is not a limitation imposed upon a member that will keep him or her from fulfilling a calling. If a member truly feels that way, it is time for an improving teaching workshop.

(5) In some areas, it is not a matter of getting with it and upping the lines. Even a general authority cannot make the phone company increase their DSL speed. And when a cable company says it will take four months to install, do not ask them to do it in one and expect to be connected.

(6) This Church is not run by culture shifts. Not all leaders have accepted the culture change you describe. But many are carefully embracing it. And mid-level managers have no concern at all if they are doing what they have been asked to do.

I am grateful for the direction in which the Church is headed with regard to technology. I fully embrace it. I also understand the frustrations of FM groups who are caught squarely between our desires for the latest and greatest technical advances and the direction of those who hold priesthood keys and who ultimately have the responsibility to keep us on course.

And so, because of all of this and more, the stake president gets to decide how widely to distribute the wifi password, because he knows the members of his stake best, and he holds the keys to direct the work of the stake.
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#23Postby johnshaw » Thu May 17, 2012 2:24 pm

One of my favorite passages of scripture comes to mind....

Doctrine & Covenants 58:26-29
26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.
27 Verily I say, men should be anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;
28 For the power is in them, wherein they are agents unto themselves. And inasmuch as men do good they shall in nowise lose their reward.
29 But he that doeth not anything until he is commanded, and receiveth a commandment with doubtful heart, and keepeth it with slothfulness, the same is damned.

Those with Keys are hardly ever experts at everything, as has been said --> they MUST and hopefully do rely on their HC, their STS to help them understand technologies, how they can benefit the lives of members of the church, and how to implement them in a manner that benefits the members within their stewardship (they ultimately decide). It is a poor counselor or consultant who will not stand up and potentially say to someone with Keys, that they may not be seeing the bigger picture (I'm talking about a private conversation where a safe, open discussion can be had without any appearance of the person with Keys appearing to be 'undercut' or contradicted - There is a proper order in things) The proper balance to weigh in my mind is what is the value of limiting access to a small (let's call them elite) group in a stake vs the value of opening the access (I would submit to you the dangers being spoken about are just as likely among the leaders as the 'rank and file' members).

I would comment that the church does shift with culture changes, when it comes to media, as I've read our history, we have been WELL ahead, and continue to stay well ahead of the 'competition'.

Gospel teaching is changing, as I've heard whispers, and rumors, there is new curriculum being developed by the Church for our Youth, this curriculum will feature RICH media content and the need for it to be part of nearly every lesson. We'll see, but hopefully this is the case... CES is heading in the same direction.... it is our Youth I'm concerned about.... our youth who are most susceptible to the culture changes, it is our youth who need these 2.5 minutes of a small short burst of gospel teaching... They have been raised in a society, taught in schools that this is the way they learn.... I think you can read into the facts that the church has developed hundreds of these short-segment videos...There must be a reason, there is a reason... it's because they understand the change in society is taking place, and they need the content available to them... The Brethren have seen it... their directions to church employees are to deliver it, and I would hope that Those with Keys see it also. Those of us called to be leaders regarding technology in our stakes and wards should help those with keys see it.

It is the unfortunate leader/teacher who will not find the most appropriate way to communicate the gospel to the group they are responsible for. You could sit down and FORCE them to list or experience a lesson the way that YOU WANT them to, or the way you've always done it, but is it truly what needs to be done? We aren't bending to a culture change, we are accommodating the most appropriate method to instill the gospel in our youth, the needs that they have, not the needs that we have or want them to have. We aren't caving to a culture change, the change happened, or is happening, no amount of hoping will get rid of facebook, or texting.. it's here to stay... now what do we do, how do we use it to our advantage... Well, what have the Brethren instructed the church to do? Have you seen lds.org? Share Facebook, tweet.. it's all there built into the websites @ lds.org.

New buildings are coming with projectors for seminary classes that can play hdmi, and dvds, there are signs everywhere Mormon.org, I am a Mormon, MormonChannel, youth messages, mormonmessages, gospel leadership library, general conference addresses online going back 40 years... why would the church do this... isn't the text already available... can't I teach an inspiring lesson with just the words? I think the Brethren, in charge of direction of spending the widow's mite have made it clear... maybe it isn't clear yet to everyone, but, there are bread crumbs and signs everywhere, I would submit that those who have ears to hear will hear.
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#24Postby lajackson » Thu May 17, 2012 9:13 pm

JohnShaw wrote:Those with Keys are hardly ever experts at everything, as has been said --> they MUST and hopefully do rely on their HC, their STS to help them understand technologies, how they can benefit the lives of members of the church, and how to implement them in a manner that benefits the members within their stewardship (they ultimately decide).


On this we agree. I believe our only difference of opinion is yet unspoken. What do we do when those with keys do not agree with those you insist they must rely on.

Having been at different times both the insistent one and the one holding keys, I fully understand both the frustration and the difficulty involved in these situations. I also understand the marvelous blessings that come when those who make the decisions trust and rely on those presenting the information, and those presenting the information know that the decision made is an inspired one, even if somewhat different from the presented proposal.

I do not believe anyone here is saying we should not do all we can to support the work of the Church in these technical areas. I do not believe anyone here is recommending that we hold back in our suggestions.

I do believe some here are presenting a wide range of options so that our leaders will be able to make a more informed and inspired decision that will meet the needs of the members.

Unfortunately, we have strayed far away from the technical aspects involved and well into the exciting area of policy and decision making that is left to priesthood leaders, but is not part of the charter of this Forum.

So, to answer your original question, our stake president has authorized our bishops to give the password to anyone who asks and who has an official Church purpose.
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#25Postby davesudweeks » Fri May 18, 2012 10:27 am

lajackson wrote:So, to answer your original question, our stake president has authorized our bishops to give the password to anyone who asks and who has an official Church purpose.


And for our stake the president has chosen to hold off on WIFI for the time being. He has not given me his reasoning and I am not asking, but I can guess. He is not technologically challenged so it is not that. When the 2-3 folks have complained to me, I advised them they are welcome to make an appointment with the Stake President to discuss it as that is nothing the ward can fix. As far as I know, no one has ever done that ;-)
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#26Postby johnshaw » Fri May 18, 2012 11:36 am

lajackson wrote:On this we agree. I believe our only difference of opinion is yet unspoken. What do we do when those with keys do not agree with those you insist they must rely on.


I'll just put in one last item to finalize something left assumed.

I don't think we'll have a difference of opinion in this perspective (see below for my personal code of following my leaders)

I am insistent with everyone I serve that I'm providing my best counsel, the vision that I see, and what I believe will benefit the members of the church. I have a consistent message, listen to me until your decision is reached... once the decision is reached, I advocate that position to anyone and everyone. My last round with the Stake President had this included. I'm here to support your decisions. "If you feel the right thing to do is run telegraph lines between our meetinghouses, I'll get it done, I'll learn morse code and provide training on morse code for anyone who needs it."

I will advocate the position I feel is right, always, until the Keyholder makes a decision. I may be personally disappointed, but that is completely irrelevant to me when it comes to my callings. People disappoint me all the time, I've gotten used to it. :)

Quick note
If anyone has had the opportunity to see the Church Employee Leadership session that included an interview/discussion with Elder Bednar and Ralph Christensen, you'll recognize this philosophy which I learned while serving under leaders trained by Ralph Christensen.
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Re: Policy Question: How widely does your stake distribute

#27Postby mrrad » Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:06 pm

I know this is kind of an old topic but when all the Cisco gear was installed in our stake a member of the Stake Presidency sent a letter to the Bishops telling them the password and telling them to give it out. They said they wanted to provide as much as possible to the members within the framework provided. So we gave out the password on the printed, Sunday program. We printed it just once and the implied message was "If you want to use this, do it. If you throw away this piece of paper but want us to give you the password later, then ask for it."

A couple of weeks ago I noticed that another ward in our stake printed the password on their Sunday program. So I decided that this past Sunday (when so many members would be bringing new devices to church after Christmas) I would print the password one more time. This seems especially important (to me, anyway) because the youth will not have the kinds of "hard copies" they had in the past. In my "announcement" of the password I included something like: "Please note that our firewalls block access to certain web sites and may cause limited functionality on others.” Again, there was an implied message that this system isn't for playing around. And, in the few months we've been set up this way, I haven't heard about problems. There's no "big secret" about the password. Nobody feels like a second-class citizen because they didn't get the password. Internet access, as has been pointed out in this discussion, is a fact of 21st Century life. No big deal. Moving on. (Besides, maybe if the youth learn to use the Internet responsibly in a church setting all the time then they won't "need" such tight rules about it when they grow up and serve as full time missionaries.)
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Re: Missing the Mark?

#28Postby gbekmezian » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:06 pm

JohnShaw wrote:Nibley observed MANY years ago a trend that he thought would be detrimental to the Church, and that is transition from leaders to managers. He observed that managers want to control, Leaders what to provide the tools necessary to get the work done, a manager insists on his/her tool, or nothing, etc...


If I could "like" this post, I would :).
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