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Will there will be access to schedule classes at stake level?

Beta Lesson Schedules Website feedback

#31Postby russellhltn » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:23 pm

Something else to consider in the design process is if later features "takes away" something from the V1. When they do add stake control, I can see the wards complaining and wanting things like it was before. Particularly if the stake doesn't fulfill it's part in setting a schedule.

It's easier not to give in the first place then to try and take things away later.
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#32Postby johnshaw » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:32 pm

jdcr256 wrote:Believe it or not, in our quest to simplify the app, the strongest advocate for leaving stake admin out is indeed a stake clerk.

In cutting corners to fit our resources, we decided to support the people who could best maintain the schedule first (ward and auxiliary leaders). Are there really good reasons to support Stake admin, absolutely. It just didn't fit in the 1.0 release, so we had to push it off for later.


With that Qualifier, if you had asked me, a stake clerk, I would've said the same thing.... Another great reason to publish your roadmap, strategic initiatives you're working towards, deadlines you are on, etc... The community is here to support you, and offer assistance, we are the ones who roll out the apps to your end users, typically.... I would take advantage of a group like this.
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#33Postby jdcr256 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:12 pm

RussellHltn wrote:It's easier not to give in the first place then to try and take things away later.


I'm not sure what you're referring to here. What are we taking away?
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#34Postby jdlessley » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:20 pm

JohnShaw wrote: Why not develop it fully, roll it out a bit later?
This sounds like some people believe we are talking about an application that has been fully released. It has not been fully released. The scheduler is in beta and we as the community are helping with the development by giving feedback and insights into issues so that when it is fully released there will not be significant issues. Granted we can use it, but as noted in the Lesson Scheduler Application now available in Beta thread notice even the data may not persist once it is released. If you are using the scheduler for your official scheduler for your unit then you may be quite unhappy when the data is reset, if that need were to occur.

I would rather deal with the issues in beta as a community and not have to wait for an end product that may or may not meet unit scheduling needs. We get the opportunity to provide QA checks and feedback that influences the direction of the final product.

Take a look at this interview with Jeff Brown by Alan Smoot about the community involvement in product development. We get a better product in a shorter time. But we have to be aware that the beta product is not perfect and that our input makes a difference.
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#35Postby russellhltn » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:43 pm

jdlessley wrote:This sounds like some people believe we are talking about an application that has been fully released. It has not been fully released.


So the question becomes what features will it have when it reaches "fully released". I'm under the impression that the stake will not have any access until some time later. It's not being added during the beta.
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#36Postby russellhltn » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:55 pm

jdcr256 wrote:I'm not sure what you're referring to here. What are we taking away?


In this case it may be more of the illusion of control (because the stake has always had the authority, just not implemented in the system).

I'd assume that wards would have a limited ability to override what the stake enters. Someone is going to complain if V1 gives them total control but V2 then limits them. I'm just saying you need to be ready to explain any changes that adds restrictions. (While freedoms are welcomed with open arms.)

As a thought (although this is probably too late): What if you gave the stake sole control over PH/RS just as the Classic system does now and add the ward features in later? Same end result, different route. That could change how the users perceive the final product.
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#37Postby jdcr256 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:19 pm

RussellHltn wrote:I'd assume that wards would have a limited ability to override what the stake enters. Someone is going to complain if V1 gives them total control but V2 then limits them. I'm just saying you need to be ready to explain any changes that adds restrictions. (While freedoms are welcomed with open arms.)


We don't have any plans to change the control that the ward has over their own schedules. We may add the ability for a stake to edit a wards schedules, or allow the stake to create templates that wards can modify, but none of that would affect the level of control that wards have now.
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#38Postby johnshaw » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:43 pm

jdlessley wrote:This sounds like some people believe we are talking about an application that has been fully released.


My point is why the rush now? Why rush to bring out only part of what you want to bake into the system. By the team's own admission they had to limit what they originally wanted to do in an initial rollout (that's my interpretation) due to time and resource constraints. Nobody is expecting v2 or v3, that's reserved for adding to the calendar, adding to lds tools or gospel library, or adding RSS feeds, having lessons show up when you log into lds.org, etc....
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#39Postby AileneRHerrick » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:31 pm

JohnShaw wrote:By the team's own admission they had to limit what they originally wanted to do in an initial rollout (that's my interpretation) due to time and resource constraints.


The "initial rollout" is currently beta only, for community members to do quality assurance testing with it. As of right now, it is not ready to be used in wards and stakes since there are still many issues to be ironed out. At this point, I would encourage people to "play with it" if they want to, and nothing more. It's not as if we are being asked to incorporate this in our wards right now. There will likely be many changes before official implementation occurs. One of those changes may be stake access, and it may not be. (I would have no knowledge either way). Does that make sense?

(Sorry, I feel like we all keep talking past each other on the issue. Hopefully we can all get on the same page).
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#40Postby aebrown » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:33 pm

AileneRHerrick wrote:There will likely be many changes before official implementation occurs. One of those changes may be stake access, and it may not be. (I would have no knowledge either way).


Actually, we do have knowledge of that. There will not be stake access in the first release:

jdcr256 wrote:In cutting corners to fit our resources, we decided to support the people who could best maintain the schedule first (ward and auxiliary leaders). Are there really good reasons to support Stake admin, absolutely. It just didn't fit in the 1.0 release, so we had to push it off for later.


But I certainly understand the need to make compromises between features, time, and resources. My hope is that the stake administration features will be added to Lesson Schedules by November or so -- that way the stake can be involved in the 2013 planning process.
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