Copier costs

Discussions about setup, operation, and maintenance of these devices in meetinghouses other than a FHC
billshort-p40
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Copier costs

Postby billshort-p40 » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:08 pm

I'm new to this forum but this ain't my first rodeo.

I was happy when the Church decided to go to the centralized model of providing standard copier hardware to local units in the US and Canada. This program does require the local units to use the consumables that go with the standard machine. Since the local units don't have a choice of hardware (probably a good thing) we rely on the folks at headquarters to select the most economical, durable, and overall best deal equipment.

I am currently on the high council and am the physical facilities rep for my stake. I have received several complaints from some of the units in the stake about the high cost of the drum/toner units for the Xerox copiers we use. These units cost a little over $100 each for about 13,000 pages. In buildings where there are multiple units they are using a cartridge every 45-60 days. That may be a lot of money to some wards but to other wards it is a significant hit to their limited budget. (And yes, I realize that the wards could probably do a better job of managing/reducing the number of copies)

At my work we use a brand of printer that requires only relatively inexpensive toner (15,000 page) be added (not a more expensive toner/drum unit) and the expensive drum transfer roll etc. are designed for long life and will produce 300,000 - 500,000 copies before they need to be replaced. I have been using these units for 4 years in a busy work environment and haven't replaced anything but toner on any of them. In addition, even the smallest model I am using has scanning capability and is also a printer.

Do the purchasing folks at headquarters periodically look at different manufacturers of copiers/printers? (I know they must) How much weight is given to the ongoing cost of consumables when selecting the standard brand and model of copier?

Just wondering.

Bill

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:48 pm

One concern I'd have is how big a hit it will be on the wards when it does come time to replace that expensive drum. If I was in charge, I'd probably lean more toward "pay as you go" to avoid budget-breaking expenses and to encourage better paper management.
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billshort-p40
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Postby billshort-p40 » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:20 pm

That is exactly my concern. The big hit that the local units have to take when these items need to be replaced. I'm not sure what you mean when you say you would "probably lean more toward "pay as you go" to avoid budget-breaking expenses." As far as I know we are pay as you go - when the items are needed they are purchased by the wards.

I just checked an email I received from my local FM group and they said the toner yield for that model is rated at only 8,000 copies ($94 per cartridge) and the drum unit yield is rated at 20,000 copies ($111). If my understanding and math are correct, to make 24,000 copies could cost $94 x 3, plus $111 = $393. That's based on estimated yield and doesn't include the cost of paper. It would take 48 reams of paper to make 24,000 single sided copies and if you paid $3.50 a ream that would add $168. So, add it all up and that's a per copy price of about 2.4 cents. That doesn't sound so bad, but when a ward has to pull $200 out of their budget every month or so it can become a burden.

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:49 pm

billshort wrote:I just checked an email I received from my local FM group and they said the toner yield for that model is rated at only 8,000 copies ($94 per cartridge) and the drum unit yield is rated at 20,000 copies ($111). If my understanding and math are correct, to make 24,000 copies could cost $94 x 3, plus $111 = $393. That's based on estimated yield and doesn't include the cost of paper. It would take 48 reams of paper to make 24,000 single sided copies and if you paid $3.50 a ream that would add $168. So, add it all up and that's a per copy price of about 2.4 cents. That doesn't sound so bad, but when a ward has to pull $200 out of their budget every month or so it can become a burden.


The first part of your math (the per copy cost) looks fine. But I don't see how you get that last line -- $200 per ward every month or so. That would be 8,000 copies in a month, which sounds extremely high. In your first post you talked about multiple units replacing a 13,000 copy cartridge every 45-60 days, which would be 6,500 - 8,700 copies. Divided among 3 wards, that makes only 2,200 - 2,900 copies a month, which seems quite a bit more reasonable, and makes a monthly cost of $53 - &70. Times 12 months, that's still quite a bit ($600-$850), but far less than the $2,400 annual cost you were implying.

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Postby russellhltn » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:22 pm

The way I read your message, the wards are using a toner/drum unit while at work you have a cheap toner/long lasting but expensive drum unit. I thought the question was operating cost and the suggestion that your work unit was cheaper.

I'm just saying that cheaper and more frequent drum replacements may be preferable over a unit with the same operating costs but only has to have the drum replaced every couple of years.

My math agrees with yours. However, $200 every month at 2.4¢/copy comes out to close to 1,700 copies a week. How the heck does one ward use that much? No doubt the Sunday program is a fair portion of it, but even so......

Copier costs have always been the bane of any ward I've been in. Trying to track it all and figure out where it went.
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billshort-p40
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Postby billshort-p40 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:17 pm

Alan_Brown wrote:Divided among 3 wards, that makes only 2,200 - 2,900 copies a month, which seems quite a bit more reasonable, and makes a monthly cost of $53 - &70. Times 12 months, that's still quite a bit ($600-$850), but far less than the $2,400 annual cost you were implying.


I didn't mean to imply a $2,400 annual expense per ward. The $600-$850 number per year per ward is probably closer. But $600-$850 probably represents around 15-20% or each wards' annual budget allocation.

billshort-p40
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Postby billshort-p40 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:34 pm

RussellHltn wrote:The way I read your message, the wards are using a toner/drum unit while at work you have a cheap toner/long lasting but expensive drum unit. I thought the question was operating cost and the suggestion that your work unit was cheaper.

I'm just saying that cheaper and more frequent drum replacements may be preferable over a unit with the same operating costs but only has to have the drum replaced every couple of years.

My math agrees with yours. However, $200 every month at 2.4¢/copy comes out to close to 1,700 copies a week. How the heck does one ward use that much? No doubt the Sunday program is a fair portion of it, but even so......

Copier costs have always been the bane of any ward I've been in. Trying to track it all and figure out where it went.


Sorry - I may have created some confusion by trying to provide too much background and detailed info.

The copiers at work are much less expensive to operate and only require less costly "toner only" refills. As far as the photo drum unit is concerned they have such a long life that I have never had to replace one. In a relatively low volume meetinghouse environment they would probably never need to be replaced either.

The main questions are at the end of my first post. Is there a thorough evaluation and analysis carried out to determine the best overall solution when selecting the standard copier models?

You are absolutely correct about copier costs being the bane of wards. Right up there with trying to manage keys.

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:37 pm

billshort wrote:I didn't mean to imply a $2,400 annual expense per ward. The $600-$850 number per year per ward is probably closer. But $600-$850 probably represents around 15-20% or each wards' annual budget allocation.


That 15-20% figure sounds too high. If it really represents that large of a fraction of the total budget, then the total budget must be around $4000, which means the ward has sacrament meeting attendance of only 60 or so, assuming there are some youth, primary, and single adults who account for a reasonable but small addition. That's an amazingly small ward -- it sounds more like a branch to me, and such a small ward shouldn't be using that many copies.

For a more typical sized ward, the budget allocation should be more like $10,000 or more, so we're talking more like 7% or so. I'm not saying that is insignificant, but it's quite a bit less than you proposed.

In any case, the larger point is that significant money is spent on copies. Anything we can do to reduce the per copy cost, as well as the number of copies made (while still making needed copies for instruction and communication), is a good thing.


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