Internet DSL Speeds

Discussions about Internet service providers (ISPs), the Meetinghouse Firewall, wired and wireless networking, usage, management, and support of Meetinghouse Internet
lajackson
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Internet DSL Speeds

Postby lajackson » Mon May 23, 2016 3:29 pm

I would appreciate anything from a knowledgeable response to a total guess. Either a technical explanation or a simple response is okay. Please don't laugh at the numbers. We live on a different planet from most of the civilized world.

A DSL provider provisions a line for 3M bandwidth service, but can only provide about 1.8M max because of the service loop length. The service gradually drops down to 250k and then the line has to be "refreshed" back to 1.7 to 1.8M.

The DSL provider suggests provisioning the line for 1.5M service, proposing that the service will be more stable at 1.2M to 1.5M.

If I agree, will I really get the 1.2M to 1.5M service on the same loop length, or am I looking in reality at 750-800k bandwidth service, along with service drops and "refreshing"?

Fire away. Thanks.

russellhltn
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Re: Internet DSL Speeds

Postby russellhltn » Mon May 23, 2016 4:42 pm

When you say "refreshed", what has to happen? Does it work to simply power cycle the modem, or do you have to call it in? Assuming this is line that is both DSL and voice, how is the voice side doing? Any noise/static/hum?
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lajackson
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Re: Internet DSL Speeds

Postby lajackson » Tue May 24, 2016 8:32 am

russellhltn wrote:When you say "refreshed", what has to happen? Does it work to simply power cycle the modem, or do you have to call it in? Assuming this is line that is both DSL and voice, how is the voice side doing? Any noise/static/hum?

So far we have had to call it in each time, although I am trying to figure out how to force it from our side.

This is a DSL only line, no voice, but all of the other lines in the building have noise, and the provider Tech folks can give me noise readings, but they call them "acceptable".

harddrive
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Re: Internet DSL Speeds

Postby harddrive » Tue May 24, 2016 9:18 am

If this is a receiving sight then the download speed should be good, but I would see if it could be lowered to the 800 K range, to allow the DSL line a little head room. Now if this is the stake center where you will be broadcasting form, then the question becomes what is the upload speed? That will be your real issue.

Terry

lajackson
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Re: Internet DSL Speeds

Postby lajackson » Tue May 24, 2016 10:29 am

This is a receive site, so it would work for now. The 530k up speed would not support originating a broadcast (although we actually did it twice using the old Church system).

My real question, though, is if we let the provider provision the line at 1.5M, will we really get it, or will we be stuck with only half of that speed. I would rather get half of 3M than half of 1.5M. The best the provider has ever delivered on the circuit is 1.8M.

russellhltn
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Re: Internet DSL Speeds

Postby russellhltn » Tue May 24, 2016 10:40 am

lajackson wrote:all of the other lines in the building have noise, and the provider Tech folks can give me noise readings, but they call them "acceptable".

Is this noise something you notice in a phone call? I'd consider that unacceptable and likely a source of the problem. Does this noise change over time? (Perhaps getting worse in wet weather.) If it was only something the test set could hear, then I wouldn't worry about it.


lajackson wrote:So far we have had to call it in each time, although I am trying to figure out how to force it from our side.

I'd think a power cycle or perhaps a reset done via getting into a menu would do that.


lajackson wrote:My real question, though, is if we let the provider provision the line at 1.5M, will we really get it, or will we be stuck with only half of that speed. I would rather get half of 3M than half of 1.5M. The best the provider has ever delivered on the circuit is 1.8M.

I'm pretty sure you're getting adjusted downwards due to problems on the line. If you start at 1.5M, it will be less likely to adjust down. But that may not stop you from getting adjusted down to the same point (250k).
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Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

lajackson
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Re: Internet DSL Speeds

Postby lajackson » Tue May 24, 2016 10:57 am

russellhltn wrote:Does this noise change over time? (Perhaps getting worse in wet weather.)

Yes. These are old lines and the phone company is not motivated to replace them.

russellhltn wrote:I'd think a power cycle or perhaps a reset done via getting into a menu would do that.

Still trying to trigger a refresh from our end. Just a power cycle or reset does not do it. But I think if we leave it down longer, the central office might pick up on the problem and try to refresh the line. I'm not sure what it takes to trigger that at the office end.

russellhltn wrote:I'm pretty sure you're getting adjusted downwards due to problems on the line. If you start at 1.5M, it will be less likely to adjust down. But that may not stop you from getting adjusted down to the same point (250k).

It sounds as if this may be an option worth considering, then. We know the line can handle up to 1.8M, but I am guessing that the system is still trying to push it up to 3M. if we start at 1.5M and it holds, the line might actually be more stable as the provider suggests. But if the cause of the problem is that the line is long and old, I do not want to risk okaying 1.5M and then getting only half of that.

russellhltn
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Re: Internet DSL Speeds

Postby russellhltn » Tue May 24, 2016 11:18 am

lajackson wrote:But if the cause of the problem is that the line is long and old, I do not want to risk okaying 1.5M and then getting only half of that.

I'm no expert in DSL, but it's not going to go downward unless the equipment finds it can't maintain 1.5M. And I know from my own DSL at home, there are a lot more steps then just "half" - meaning if 1.5M isn't workable, it's not going to go to half of 1.5M, but something more like 1.3M.

Is there a concern in trying this? Are you not going to be able to go back to 3M if your worst fear is realized?
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Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

lajackson
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Re: Internet DSL Speeds

Postby lajackson » Tue May 24, 2016 12:38 pm

russellhltn wrote:Is there a concern in trying this? Are you not going to be able to go back to 3M if your worst fear is realized?

I have two concerns. One, which may be totally unreal, is that if it takes 3M of "power" to get 1.8M to the end of the pipe, if we switch to 1.5M, only 750k will get through. This may be totally irrational based on how DSL actually works. It would also be unacceptable. Your comments are starting to allay those fears. It we will reliably get 1.2M to 1.5M with that service, it will be an option. If trying to cram 3M down the pipe is part of the problem, and 1.5M will smooth that out, it will be an option. Those are technical issues about which I do not yet have a warm fuzzy. I'm still listening, though.

The other concern is that, yes, they should not have sold us 3M of service and would not want us to go back once we switch to 1.5M. They might let us, though. We haven't actually asked. FM Group insisted on at least 2M because, at the time, we were originating stake conferences. So 3M was the plan. They do not understand the technical part of this at all, and wonder why the ISP isn't providing the service.

In the midst of all this, we are looking at other options -- cable, satellite, etc. We have used some of them in the past. But even this poor lowly DSL service has worked better than anything else so far. On the Sunday morning of stake conference, DSL is the only service to have successfully delivered a broadcast. But it was because all the stars aligned, not because of ISP reliability.

russellhltn
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Re: Internet DSL Speeds

Postby russellhltn » Tue May 24, 2016 12:52 pm

lajackson wrote:One, which may be totally unreal, is that if it takes 3M of "power" to get 1.8M to the end of the pipe, if we switch to 1.5M, only 750k will get through.

I don't have enough knowledge to know for sure, but I doubt if that would be the case. But even if true, I'm sure you could make a strong case for going back or doing something as you're now worse off than before.

Something you might look into - removing as much "dead" wiring from that cable pair. It's not uncommon for all of the incoming lines to be available in multiple places in the building. They pick off the pair desired somewhere near the jack. That allows for greater flexibility - especially in a business office enviroment. But all that extra wiring is just more stuff to pick up noise and cause signal reflections. For the DSL line, you want that line coming in to go though the demark point and then only connect the wire pair that gets to to the modem - disconnect all other wire pairs that route that line to other parts of the building.
Have you searched the Wiki?

Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.


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