Can't use wireless and FM won't approve Hardwire

Discussions about Internet service providers (ISPs), the Meetinghouse Firewall, wired and wireless networking, usage, management, and support of Meetinghouse Internet
kmalone-p40
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Can't use wireless and FM won't approve Hardwire

Postby kmalone-p40 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:14 pm

Anyway we can get around this issue?

lajackson
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Postby lajackson » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:24 pm

kmalone wrote:Anyway we can get around this issue?


If you have gone through your stake FM rep (usually a high councilor), have the stake president or one of his counselors make the call to the FM group. [grin]

techgy
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Postby techgy » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:51 pm

kmalone wrote:Anyway we can get around this issue?


What issues does the FM group have with the hardware? Generally their concern is for the aesthetics of the building. Hardwiring a facility can cause some damage if it's not done properly, so this may be their issue.

Why can't you use wireless?

kmalone-p40
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Postby kmalone-p40 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:02 am

Techgy wrote:What issues does the FM group have with the hardware? Generally their concern is for the aesthetics of the building. Hardwiring a facility can cause some damage if it's not done properly, so this may be their issue.

Why can't you use wireless?



From what I have been told by the Stake IT, too much interference. Now i think its a matter of cost to get it done.

techgy
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Postby techgy » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:01 am

kmalone wrote:From what I have been told by the Stake IT, too much interference. Now i think its a matter of cost to get it done.


I can't speak to the cost of hardwiring your facility, but I know that it can be expensive. Prior to our stake going with a wireless installation I had received an estimate of $4k to wire just one building. If the structure is complex enough (a new building) just getting around in the attic and through fire-walls can be difficult and time consuming. On the other hand, I've heard people who have hard-wired a building for a few hundred dollars.

I would say that the decision would be up to the Stake President.

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Mikerowaved
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Postby Mikerowaved » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:48 am

Techgy wrote:On the other hand, I've heard people who have hard-wired a building for a few hundred dollars.

We fall into that category. One son of our STS is a licensed electrician and graciously donated his time to install CAT5e in our Stake Center. With a little help from some members, it went very smoothly. The material cost is minimal, it's the labor cost that makes it what it is. I would look around in the stake for an electrician and a few volunteers willing to donate a Saturday.

This is only a suggested way to avoid the high installation cost of network hard wire. If your Stake President has other objections then he certainly is entitled to the last word in the decision.
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jdlessley
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Postby jdlessley » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:21 pm

kmalone wrote:Anyway we can get around this issue?
I feel your pain. The construction of our stake center - which hosts three wards - just will not allow adequate signal propagation for a wireless network. There is but one location available to place WAPs and then the signal is only good for the chapel and the cultural hall. All the clerk offices and classrooms are located on the periphery of the building with numerous cinderblock walls, reinforced concrete ceilings (floors), and metal HVAC ducting attenuating the signal to unacceptable levels.

Without any in-wall or overhead maintenance space, the building is such that stringing wire was first put off as not being possible. I spent a great deal of time and effort to force the wireless we had in the building to work. The fruits of my labor have been only to get two of three wards with a very weak signal and the third has about 50% to 70% success in getting a connection on any single day. The stake clerk computer has about a 30% success rate for wireless connection.

I installed a Netgear XE102 wall-plugged Ethernet Bridge for the stake clerk computer to get better connectivity. It is the only clerk location that is on the same circuit as the FHC where the CCN DSL is located. The ethernet bridge has its issues that make it a marginal solution.

I am still pursuing hardwiring though. I am looking into using D&C112:10'ssolution using in-place telephone conduit as a way of avoiding stringing wire outside the building. Stringing wire on the building exterior was the first recommendation by the FM Group director. The down side is that this requires more length to the wire runs plus the additional cost of exterior conduit. The run to one ward could end up exceeding the maximum length of 100 meters (including patch cords).
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Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:08 pm

While I'm not a fan of the technology, have you looked into Powerline Network Adapters?

For example, the Linksys PLTE200. A quick google shows the price is around $70/node.


Disclaimer: Product shown is for example only. Other products using the same technology exists. A list can be found here.

It would be nice to find units that are "Amateur Radio friendly" so it won't mess up any current or future emergency communication plans.

The biggest issue is they may not work well depending on what plugs are used. Some experimentation may be in order. Most buildings are either split-phase or three phase power. The difficulty comes in communicating from phase to phase. You may have to map the outlets to know which ones are on which phase. Two outlets in the same room can be on different phases while two outlets on opposite sides of the building can be on the same one.

The beauty of it is, outside of the Internet connection itself, the FM group doesn't need to get involved. :)
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Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

SheffieldTR
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Postby SheffieldTR » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:49 pm

Another option that has been used it to use the phone line to pull two CAT5 lines in and use one to replace the phone and the other for Internet. Just a thought.

techgy
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Postby techgy » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:55 pm

tsheffield wrote:Another option that has been used it to use the phone line to pull two CAT5 lines in and use one to replace the phone and the other for Internet. Just a thought.


This might be an option if the building is newer and phone lines are in conduit. If it's an older facility and the phone lines are just dropped into the attic - like one our buildings - then using an existing line to pull new cat5 cable might be difficult. Not impossible - just difficult.


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