Visibility of computers within a workgroup

Discussions about Internet service providers (ISPs), the Meetinghouse Firewall, wired and wireless networking, usage, management, and support of Meetinghouse Internet
drepouille
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Visibility of computers within a workgroup

Postby drepouille » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:08 am

I have replaced or upgraded 7 of the 8 computers in the stake FHC, so they are now running Windows 7 pro. The last computer is a Dell OptiPlex 740 that is the Digital Imaging System (with a Canon MS300), and is still running Windows XP until I can find the right drivers.

This DIS computer can see only 4 of the other 7 computers in the FHC in its workgroup in "My Network Places". I have set the workgroup of all 8 computers to FAMILYSEARCH, because that is what the new FHC image uses. I have experimented with using the "Work" and "Public" network types on the Windows 7 computers, and I have played with the various network discovery settings.

Although I have played with static IP address in the past, all 8 computers are currently set to dynamic IP addresses, and they are all on the same sub-net (10.xxx.138.xxx). All 8 computers should be able to see each other, especially if they are set to the "Work" network type.

I need the DIS computer to be able to see the computer on the staff desk, because the staff computer is sharing an hp LaserJet 1300 printer, and I want the DIS computer to be able to use that printer. However, the DIS computer refuses to see the staff computer on the network, either through discovery, or by my entering the hostname of the staff computer into the "add printer" dialog.

The DIS computer and the staff computer are located very close to each other, and are connected to the same hub. At this time, when someone wants to print from the DIS computer, they simply unplug the USB from the staff computer, and plug it into the DIS computer. That works, but I would rather share the printer without moving the USB cable.

One reason why I haven't tossed the LaserJet 1300 is because we have many full toner cartridges for it, and want to use it up. Another reason we kept the 1300 was because the film scanning software we were using when the 1320 printers came out was not compatible with the 1320 printers.
Dana Repouille, Plattsmouth, Nebraska

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marianomarini
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Re: Visibility of computers within a workgroup

Postby marianomarini » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:35 am

drepouille wrote:Although I have played with static IP address in the past, all 8 computers are currently set to dynamic IP addresses, and they are all on the same sub-net (10.xxx.138.xxx). All 8 computers should be able to see each other, especially if they are set to the "Work" network type.

Are you saying that the subnet mask is: 255.0.255.0?

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Re: Visibility of computers within a workgroup

Postby russellhltn » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:29 am

drepouille wrote:and they are all on the same sub-net (10.xxx.138.xxx).

That doesn't look like the same sub-net to me. If you've got more than one IP pool on your firewall, you're going to have to do something different. I set the "servers" to static IP and then edit the local hosts file so I can find them by name.

The other alternative is to set all the workstation to static.
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drepouille
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Re: Visibility of computers within a workgroup

Postby drepouille » Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:14 am

Right. Sorry. I was trying to obfuscate my IP addresses. Let's say both of them are issued IP addresses in the 10.123.138.xxx range.

I can certainly try setting both the print server and the client to static IP addresses in the same sub-net. I would also like to see if the Sophos firewall might be blocking the client from seeing the host computer.
Dana Repouille, Plattsmouth, Nebraska

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Re: Visibility of computers within a workgroup

Postby russellhltn » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:59 pm

drepouille wrote:Let's say both of them are issued IP addresses in the 10.123.138.xxx range.


Based on what I have, the church tends to set the mask to 255.255.255.192. Which means that 10.123.138.176 and 10.123.138.192 are in different sub-nets.
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aebrown
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Re: Visibility of computers within a workgroup

Postby aebrown » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:56 pm

russellhltn wrote:
drepouille wrote:Let's say both of them are issued IP addresses in the 10.123.138.xxx range.


Based on what I have, the church tends to set the mask to 255.255.255.192. Which means that 10.123.138.176 and 10.123.138.192 are in different sub-nets.

255.255.255.192 would be the subnet mask for a block of 64 addresses. But on different firewalls in my stake we have blocks of 128 (mask = 255.255.255.128) and even one block of 256 (mask = 255.255.255.0).

We haven't heard yet what drepouille's subnet mask is; it's certainly possible that he has a 255.255.255.0 mask, in which case 10.123.138.176 and 10.123.138.192 would be on the same subnet.

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Re: Visibility of computers within a workgroup

Postby russellhltn » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:07 pm

The primary point I was trying to make is that just because the first three octets are the same, (for example 10.123.138), doesn't mean they are in the same sub-net. A mask of 255.255.255.128 changes the details, but don't change the warning to not rely on the first three numbers.

Without going into the math, I think the simplest way to check is to look at TM. If there's more than one line for the subnets, then it's just a matter of time before two machines will end up on different subnets. In that situation, I've found it necessary to go with static IPs at minimum for the servers because the two subnets don't seem to be linked in a way that allows machines on one to discover the other. Perhaps that's changed. My experience is at least a few months old.

But even if they are on the same subnet, there could be other issues/firewall issues that are hiding shared printers.
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drepouille
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Re: Visibility of computers within a workgroup

Postby drepouille » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:43 pm

All 8 computers in the FHC are using the same subnet. But I understand that due to DHCP, they could easily drift, and be split into different subnets.
USER 1
SUBNET: 10.123.138.128
MASK: 255.255.255.128
GATEWAY: 10.123.138.129
STATIC: 10.123.138.130 - .138
DHCP: 10.123.138.139 - .254

USER 2
SUBNET: 10.123.139.0
MASK: 255.255.255.128
GATEWAY: 10.123.139.1
STATIC: 10.123.139.2 - .19
DHCP: 10.123.139.20 - .126

Total Static: 27
Total DHCP: 223
Dana Repouille, Plattsmouth, Nebraska

russellhltn
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Re: Visibility of computers within a workgroup

Postby russellhltn » Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:24 pm

So at minimum the staff computer should be static. If you make the DIS computer static in the same group as the staff computer, that might solve all the problems since then you can be sure they will always be in the same subnet.
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