Restricting Meetinghouse Internet Access

Discussions about Internet service providers (ISPs), the Meetinghouse Firewall, wired and wireless networking, usage, management, and support of Meetinghouse Internet
rolandc
Member
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 7:20 pm

Restricting Meetinghouse Internet Access

Postby rolandc » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:16 pm

Most of you are aware of the plan to drop a members LDS Account credentials as the gateway to the internet in meetinghouses.

However as a very early beta tester of the new plan, I would like to see how others feel about a VERY restricted web filter instead.

1 LDS credentials to get on the internet, personalized, & logged and coupled with (enforced) safe search & our current level of web filter?

OR

2 A new Non personalized gateway (and Filter) that blocks everything except Church Owned sites, and very few other exceptions?

One of these is going to roll out soon as the belief is they will save most of the bandwidth for the new Sunday school curriculum.

My testing of streaming videos BEHIND the 881's is they will buffer with only one computer and nothing else on, like on a Monday when nobody else is there. The ASA's do streaming video pretty well.

I would just like to know how how others feel about this.

I also think a moderator should consider changing this to a POLL

User avatar
Mikerowaved
Community Moderators
Posts: 3132
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:56 am
Location: Layton, UT

Re: Meetinghouse Internet Access

Postby Mikerowaved » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:33 pm

rolandc wrote:One of these is going to roll out soon as the belief is they will save most of the bandwidth for the new Sunday school curriculum.

Let's see... We've been told that 'Option 1' is no longer available, and 'Option 2' would cripple most Family History Libraries that operate under a church firewall. I vote for '3 - None of the above'.

Someone is going to have to understand that on-demand video streaming to support the new SS curriculum is simply the wrong answer. Many buildings don't have enough bandwidth to support ONE video stream, let alone several classes worth, while other buildings with ample bandwidth, do not need or want any additional filtering. Alternative solutions have been offered in numerous threads here. Some are as simple as making available DVD's or USB drives that are preloaded with the SS content, while others offer ways to setup local streaming servers. Anything is better than having to rely on an Internet-dependent streaming service.

rolandc wrote:My testing of streaming videos BEHIND the 881's is they will buffer with only one computer and nothing else on, like on a Monday when nobody else is there. The ASA's do streaming video pretty well.


The 881 is a very robust commercial router. If it's not able to support multiple video streams, then it's simply not configured correctly.
So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.

rolandc
Member
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 7:20 pm

Re: Meetinghouse Internet Access

Postby rolandc » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:13 pm

Mikerowaved wrote:If it's not able to support multiple video streams, then it's simply not configured correctly.

I agree with this part.

....

I did not include the other good points just to try and keep it simple and see what others think. The LDS account log in is on hold pending the current beta test of a very strict web filter called zScaler.

http://www.zscaler.com

I have already sent a very detailed report, in support of option 1

I don't think we have an option 3, and right now option 2 is being tested. We have a rare opportunity to give input and I hope more people will chime in here.

russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 20762
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

Re: Meetinghouse Internet Access

Postby russellhltn » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:33 pm

rolandc wrote:We have a rare opportunity to give input and I hope more people will chime in here.


Not that I can see.
Have you searched the Wiki?
Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

rolandc
Member
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 7:20 pm

Re: Meetinghouse Internet Access

Postby rolandc » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:24 am

russellhltn wrote:
rolandc wrote:We have a rare opportunity to give input and I hope more people will chime in here.


Not that I can see.



You may not be able to see, but there are folks working on this.

If enough people chime in here on direction ( ON TOPIC ) I can get it to the people who are working on it. If not, oh well.

rolandc
Member
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 7:20 pm

Re: Meetinghouse Internet Access

Postby rolandc » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:25 am

This is why this topic should have been a POLL.

User avatar
aebrown
Community Administrator
Posts: 14693
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:48 pm
Location: Sandy, Utah

Re: Meetinghouse Internet Access

Postby aebrown » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:05 am

rolandc wrote:This is why this topic should have been a POLL.

This is precisely why it should NOT be a poll. A poll is useful when there are clearly articulated options that respondents understand. It's obvious from the responses that your initial post, even though it was well-intentioned, did not present options that would have resulted in any meaningful poll responses. A discussion is much more helpful to clarify the issues.

It's still not clear to me that the purpose of this discussion is. You act as though you have some sort of special access to somebody who could use this information, but who is that? You make vague references to "folks working on this." If those are Church employees, why don't they come here publicly and help make this research project seem more official?

As for the options themselves, you haven't provided enough details for me to evaluate option 2. You gave a link to zScaler's site, but that doesn't provide any specifics on what is filtered. But what you said about "Church Owned sites, and very few other exceptions" sounds like it would essentially shut down the research capability of all Family History Centers. I find it hard to believe that any reasonable person considers that to be an option.

And regarding option 1, you said that it was "on hold." That is the first I've heard anyone say that since the November MHTech Newsletter very clearly said that it was no longer an option: "We have been asked to improve controls over what can be accessed instead of controlling who can access it. As a result, signing in with an LDS Account will not be required for Internet use." Those words "will not" don't sound like "on hold" to me. In the absence of any evidence that the official MHTech Newsletter was in error, I don't see how it's useful for you to try to gather support for this option.

russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 20762
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

Re: Restricting Meetinghouse Internet Access

Postby russellhltn » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:29 am

I think the underlying premise is that the Meetinghouse Internet is a finite resource and the question is how can it parceled out for the most good.

I agree that by in large the Internet connection for most meetinghouses is too limited to deal with multiple video on demand. So for normal monthly use, video should be off table. We need to go to a locally cashed copy - some kind of network server that can be loaded up during "quiet times" when the building is normally empty or even more local storage like thumbdrives or DVDs. (However, provision needs to be made for live events like Conference where everything but the broadcast is shut down.)

So the question is how to hand out the remaining bandwidth. But I don't see a "one-size-fits-all" solution. Some buildings will have enough bandwidth to support all non-video needs for church website access with some kind of access control for going to other sites to support things like FamilyHistory classes, etc.

Other meetinghouses won't have that much bandwidth and may need to limit who can access it. We might allow everyone "normal" access but prioritize who gets the bandwidth - perhaps based on a login.

All my thoughts keeps coming back to LDS Account. (Trying to manage MAC addresses seems too complicated.) I'm not sure how else it could be managed to best meet the needs.

Anyone have other ideas for prioritizing network traffic?

One thing I'd like to see - two networks. The existing 10.x.x.x for church computers (where support does need to access them) and a 192.168.x.x network that is NOT unique across the church. I don't see the need for every member-owned device to have a unique IP address in the network. That would get us around the IP limitations and allow us to focus on bandwidth issues. As well as isolate church computers where wireless devices shouldn't be able to access them.
Have you searched the Wiki?

Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

lajackson
Community Moderators
Posts: 6142
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:27 pm
Location: US

Re: Meetinghouse Internet Access

Postby lajackson » Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:59 am

rolandc wrote:We have a rare opportunity to give input and I hope more people will chime in here.

I am glad that you provided "a very detailed report" in support of whatever Option 1 is. That is the exact purpose of a survey or a beta test, to give limited exposure to a predetermined group who have been chosen as a statistical sample to represent a larger body. I trust that your judgment is solid and that you have answered well for the demographic you were chosen to represent in the test.

I had difficulty understanding the topic at first, because I was not able to understand details of the test. This was probably due to my lack of insight and available detail in the excitement of the moment. Had I been invited to participate, I am sure that I would have understood the two options, had the opportunity to experiment with them, and then would have provided the knowledgeable input requested, as you seem to have done.

But without that knowledge and experience, I would have been ill-prepared to comment on any options that may have been presented.

On the other hand, if you wish to know what I think about meetinghouse Internet access, I would be happy to discuss what I feel are the various advantages and disadvantages of different approaches to granting (or not granting) access. But it would be a general discussion, not intended to "give input" or otherwise provide any official response that I was not invited to give, since I neither received an official request, nor am I a priesthood leader who would be in a position to provide official input without awaiting a request.

User avatar
johnshaw
Senior Member
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Syracuse, UT

Re: Restricting Meetinghouse Internet Access

Postby johnshaw » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:05 am

I think there is greater need to put policy in place for what is and isn't acceptable for Internet Costs. The current filtering if fine, LDS Account access is great, and at least limits to members, but what if the scouts meet in our building, or we have public in our meetinghouses, we'll now need to have a guest access right?

Local cached streaming of video is coming - we need to re-visit and assess a stake's need for PVC, Webcasting, etc...

A Stake should have a classification like (If you have to travel more than xx minutes for meetings, higher speeds are acceptable in xx locations) etc...

Better define what speeds are truly serving the needs of members for church work.
Put the STS/SP in charge of Speeds that are acceptable for meetinghouses and not FMG
“A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom.”
― Thomas Paine, Common Sense


Return to “Meetinghouse Internet”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest