Windows Update - check online for updates

Discussions around the setup, operation, replacement, and disposal of clerk computers, not to include using MLS
dougj
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Location: Provo, UT, USA

Windows Update - check online for updates

Postby dougj » Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:39 am

When running windows update, there are no updates to install. For months/years, I've been assuming that the computers are truly up-to-date with MS patches, security fixes, etc.

This past week, I decided to click the link in the windows update screen named 'Check online for updates from Microsoft'. Lo and behold, (after quite a few minutes) that option returned over 60 updates available for installation.

Does windows update rely on the IBM Endpoint Management system for the normal updates? I can't think of another reason that windows update would show no results while the online option would.

Who else doesn't know to check the online option for updates and has significantly out-of-date computers in their buildings?

(We are running Windows 7 on all our clerk computers.)

russellhltn
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Re: Windows Update - check online for updates

Postby russellhltn » Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:10 am

The clerk computers have been changed to point to church servers for their updates. That way CHQ controls what updates they get.

I've also noticed that the church is not serving IE11 or any of it's updates. So if in setting up the computer, someone decided to install IE11, that could explain the discrepancy.

Where are you going to check? Because in the past when I try to go on-line for that I'm told it's been blocked by policy.
Have you searched the Wiki?
Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

dougj
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Location: Provo, UT, USA

Re: Windows Update - check online for updates

Postby dougj » Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:31 pm

I went online to microsoft's website to get IE11.

The link to check for updates online is in the center of the Windows Update screen. That link toggles between something like "Check online for updates from Microsoft" and "Check for updates from your system administrator". Our clerk account has permissions to run both. Not sure why it's blocked for you.

russellhltn
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Re: Windows Update - check online for updates

Postby russellhltn » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:51 pm

dougj wrote:The link to check for updates online is in the center of the Windows Update screen. That link toggles between something like "Check online for updates from Microsoft" and "Check for updates from your system administrator". Our clerk account has permissions to run both. Not sure why it's blocked for you.


OK, I've not used that link before. I've just use "check for updates" on the left side.

When I tried it, it wanted to install a newer version of the update software, but then errors out.

In the past month I installed a number of replacement computers in the stake. I also tried to update to IE11, but then discovered that there were no updates for it, so I went back to IE10. Not what I wanted to do, but I'm not going down the road of having to manually update all those machines every month.

But this does bring up a question. I got a email 10 days ago asking to make sure that all clerk computers were running the most recent version of IE. So there seems to be a disconnect here.
Have you searched the Wiki?

Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

mmangelson
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Re: Windows Update - check online for updates

Postby mmangelson » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:58 am

We are updating local unit computers and Internet Explorer 11 during our monthly patch cycle.

There could be many reasons why an endpoint may not be updated and patched, and we are working on what we can to resolve as many of those reasons as possible. Some of the reasons can be:

1. The IEM client is not installed.
2. Connectivity to the IEM relay is blocked (by firewall or other reason).
3. Patches are waiting for a restart in order to install the next set of patches.
4. The computer is not on long enough to check in, download and install patches.
5. The computer is on a slow network pipe and has a hard time getting the patch files.
6. Hard disk is limited on free space or full.

It would be nice to get a few specific machines that we can troubleshoot exactly what is going on – maybe even through TRC to remote control the machine. We might be able to get the IEM logs from the machine in order to see if there is anything that jumps out as to why patches are not being installed.

Just to be clear, it is possible for us to upgrade Windows 7 meetinghouse computers to IE11 through IEM and not have the Stake Technology Specialists have to do it manually. (I would qualify this by saying only meetinghouse computers that we have control of in IEM.)

russellhltn
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Re: Windows Update - check online for updates

Postby russellhltn » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:44 am

The theories proposed do not explain why all other updates come down - in waves - and are applied, but nothing for IE11. Please note that I tried this as part of installling a new machine.

I suspect the issue is that IE11 updates are not being offered for some reason - possibly due to the computer being in a different management group than intended.

If you can point me on where to find the logs, I'll retrive what I can.
Have you searched the Wiki?

Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

dougj
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Location: Provo, UT, USA

Re: Windows Update - check online for updates

Postby dougj » Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:24 pm

Thanks, mmangelson. I'll check around the stake for other computers that are not updating and get back with you.

russellhltn
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Re: Windows Update - check online for updates

Postby russellhltn » Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:44 pm

One thing I'll mention - when I tried to update directly from Microsoft, it wanted to update the update program itself. Could it be that the update program is too old to accept IE11 updates?
Have you searched the Wiki?

Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

dougj
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Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:00 am
Location: Provo, UT, USA

Re: Windows Update - check online for updates

Postby dougj » Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:22 am

@mmangelson. I have found at least one computer in this situation. I'd be happy to work with you to diagnose this problem. Feel free to privately email me via this forum or whatever works. Note that I do back line technical support for Symantec's Altiris endpoint management system and am familiar with the paradigm, at least.

Do you need a more detailed level of logging data? If so, how does that get set in IEM? I can have those logs ready when you connect.

Current logs show successful connections to the church's server but have failure messages for what appears to be individual updates. You'd have to verify that since you know the product.

Note that the only firewall is the cisco 881. We have been on iprovo/google fiber optic connection for a few years so bandwidth and speed shouldn't be the issue. Disk space should be adequate. The computer is on for several hours every sunday and at least one week night and is shut down each day it is used. The logs show that we are connecting to the Church's servers. So, we can take it from there. If you want the computer name, which is lu-xxxxx for the ward's unit number, let me know.

russellhltn
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Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
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Re: Windows Update - check online for updates

Postby russellhltn » Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:13 am

dougj wrote:Current logs show successful connections to the church's server but have failure messages for what appears to be individual updates.

Where is this?
Have you searched the Wiki?

Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.


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