3rd Counselor in RS presidency not showing up with presidency on new lds.org

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steveheath
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3rd Counselor in RS presidency not showing up with presidency on new lds.org

Postby steveheath » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:55 pm

Due to our size, the Relief Society presidency in my ward has a 3rd counselor. Because there is no 3rd counselor standard calling, I had to add a custom calling for this position in MLS. I changed the order so that the 3rd counselor appears between the 2nd counselor and the secretary; however, the order is not transferring to the online leadership directory on the new lds.org. Instead of showing up with the rest of the presidency, the calling is showing at the end of all the other RS callings. I can't figure out a way to get it to show with the rest of the presidency. Any ideas out there?

In addition, i worry that the sister in this calling will not have access to the online tools that other leaders have access to. Has anyone else run into this? I tried entering her as a "second" 2nd counselor, but MLS would not allow it.

Thanks,
Steve

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:30 pm

I'm afraid the answer is found in Handbook 2, section 9.2.2 "The Relief Society presidency consists of a president and two counselors." I don't see anything in there that gives local leadership latitude for creating a third counselor. Nor do I know of any other organization that allows for more than two counselors. As such, there is no support in MLS, CDOL, or any other backend system for this arrangement.

I know other stakes that have attempted to expand their High Council to more then 12 have gotten that answer.

In trying to spread the workload around, note that 9.2.5 has some options, such as an assistant Secretary that may be useful.

This is not likely to go over well with your leaders. If you need help, I'd suggest enlisting the assistance of the Stake Clerk who is responsible for training ward clerks and may be able to back you up.
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mgcooper
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3rd Counselor in Presidency

Postby mgcooper » Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:06 pm

steveheath wrote:Due to our size, the Relief Society presidency in my ward has a 3rd counselor...Thanks, Steve


I would suggest for you to discuss this with your bishop, if he is unclear about how many counselor in a presidency, he can get instruction from the stake president after reviewing the GHBI 9.2.2 as mentioned in another response. But, the key is with the bishop and his understanding of the organization and callings within the ward. Until, then you are left with having the "3rd Counselor" show up in the list after the Secretary.

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aebrown
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More Than One Relief Society in a Ward

Postby aebrown » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:33 am

steveheath wrote:Due to our size, the Relief Society presidency in my ward has a 3rd counselor. Because there is no 3rd counselor standard calling, I had to add a custom calling for this position in MLS.


You also might mention to your bishop that there is a Handbook-approved option for dealing with a large Relief Society: with bishop and stake president approval, a ward may have more than one Relief Society, as described in Handbook 2, section 9.9.1.
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dannykos
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Postby dannykos » Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:04 am

I can't see the reason for having a 3rd counsellor. If things are really busy - then identifying a specific area where someone else can be of assistance, and creating a calling based around that would work. How on earth would a presidency meeting work if there's a 2-2 split over a decision!?

steveheath
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Postby steveheath » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:00 pm

Thanks for the responses, and for pointing out what the HB says.

allenjpl
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Postby allenjpl » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:12 pm

dannykos wrote:I can't see the reason for having a 3rd counsellor. If things are really busy - then identifying a specific area where someone else can be of assistance, and creating a calling based around that would work. How on earth would a presidency meeting work if there's a 2-2 split over a decision!?


Whichever side the President is choosing wins. She IS the President, after all.

jdlessley
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Postby jdlessley » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:29 pm

allenjpl wrote:Whichever side the President is choosing wins. She IS the President, after all.
I can't agree with that. Where in doctrine or in the Handbook does it give the Relief Society President that power? It doesn't. If it were true then the Lord's house would no longer be a house of order. The order is established by the Lord's chosen servants in the First Presidency. Only they have the keys to reorganize the Church.

Take a look at Handbook 2, Administering the Church, 9.2.2. It specifies: (emphasis added)
The Relief Society presidency consists of a president and two counselors.

The Relied Society Presidency is called of God. Those callings are extended by the bishop. In (Handbook 2, 9.2.2, fifth paragraph under Relief Society President) we see that the Relief Society President...
...submits recommendations to the bishopric for sisters to be called to serve as leaders and teachers and to fulfill other callings in the Relief Society.
These leaders mentioned here would include the presidency counselors. The keys to organize the Relief Society rest with the bishop. "[The Relief Society presidency] work[s] under the direction of the bishopric." (Handbook 2, 9.2.2, first paragraph).

The general guidelines for determining whom to call in a calling are outlined in Handbook 2, 19.1.1. Section 19.1.2 outlines the process for recommendations for callings. The chart of callingsfurther delineates who has the responsibility and authority for the callings.

In all this I see nothing that gives the authority to the Relief Society president to organize the Relief Society presidency as she sees fit. She may make recommendations within the organization structure established. But it is through the bishop under the direction of the Lord that the Relief Society is organized.
JD Lessley
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allenjpl
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Postby allenjpl » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:09 pm

jdlessley wrote:
allenjpl wrote:Whichever side the President is choosing wins. She IS the President, after all.
I can't agree with that. Where in doctrine or in the Handbook does it give the Relief Society President that power? It doesn't. If it were true then the Lord's house would no longer be a house of order. The order is established by the Lord's chosen servants in the First Presidency. Only they have the keys to reorganize the Church.


I think you misunderstood my comment. My comment wasn't about the ability of the RS President to add a counselor, it was specifically referring to the question of what to do if the RS Presidency (using a 3rd counselor) was split 2-2: the President and one counselor on one side of a decision, the other two counselors on the other side. My response was simply a reminder that, though a President of a quorum or an auxiliary organization may counsel with those who have been called to assist him or her, the ultimate decision and responsibility resides with the President, as guided by the Spirit. There's no such thing as a tied vote. The Lord's house is a house of order.


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