When to Move Child Record to Head of Household

[coletheelder]

Handbook 2, 7.6.1:

"Quorum and group leaders have the responsibility to help prospective elders prepare to receive the Melchizedek Priesthood. The bishop counsels with quorum and group leaders and each prospective elder to determine whether the prospective elder should meet with the elders quorum or the high priests group for instruction and activities. The bishop considers the relationships the prospective elder may have with the elders or high priests in the ward and the age and needs of the prospective elder.
[...]
"Quorum and group leaders invite prospective elders to attend quorum or group meetings and activities."

So, a prospective elder could be assigned to the Elders Quorum or the High Priest's Quorum. I'd assume the assigned quorum would be responsible for the roles for their assigned members.

In this quote, you started by indicating "Quorum and group leaders have the responsibility to help prospective elders prepare to receive the Melchizedek Priesthood...." In an earlier quote, it was stated that "If no ordination occurs, he will stay in the Priests Quorum until he turns 19, at which point he will become a prospective elder and be moved to the High Priests group organizationally (not by priesthood office, of course) because the HPG is responsible by default for prospective elders."

It seems to me that the "default" status you describe, requiring a "manual" move, is a temporary one on a Clerk's part, until the Quorum, Group Leaders, and the Bishop counsel together and counsel with the member -- decide which quorum he is organizationally assigned to based on all criteria you referenced from CHI, Book 2. Is the "default", "manual" move, in fact, temporary during the period of counseling?

My confusion, at this moment, is based on the fact that in our Ward only ordained Elders are listed in that organization; every other male member is listed in the HP organization. Under these conditions, it is virtually impossible for me to help the Leaders generate accurate attendance records and ultimately Quarterly Reports, and I'm at a loss as to how to help them.

[aebrown]

In this quote, you started by indicating "Quorum and group leaders have the responsibility to help prospective elders prepare to receive the Melchizedek Priesthood...." In an earlier quote, it was stated that "If no ordination occurs, he will stay in the Priests Quorum until he turns 19, at which point he will become a prospective elder and be moved to the High Priests group organizationally (not by priesthood office, of course) because the HPG is responsible by default for prospective elders."

It seems to me that the "default" status you describe, requiring a "manual" move, is a temporary one on a Clerk's part, until the Quorum, Group Leaders, and the Bishop counsel together and counsel with the member -- decide which quorum he is organizationally assigned to based on all criteria you referenced from CHI, Book 2. Is the "default", "manual" move, in fact, temporary during the period of counseling?

Don't confuse "manual" and "default". The default move to prospective elder status and membership in the HPG organization is automatic -- it occurs when a male turns 19 and has not been ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood or manually moved to either the Elders Quorum or HPG. Either the automatic or manual move is "permanent" in the sense that no other automatic action will be taken.

But the priesthood leaders involved should be counseling with each other and with the bishop to give the proper care needed for each individual long before he turns 19. So the default automatic move should happen rarely if those leaders are ministering to their members.

My confusion, at this moment, is based on the fact that in our Ward only ordained Elders are listed in that organization; every other male member is listed in the HP organization. Under these conditions, it is virtually impossible for me to help the Leaders generate accurate attendance records and ultimately Quarterly Reports, and I'm at a loss as to how to help them.

You can print a list of prospective elders. That will show you which members are in the HPG simply because of their age. The priesthood leaders can then look at that list and prayerfully consider how the needs of those members can best be met. Then as a clerk you can follow their direction and manually move designated members to the Elders Quorum.

[coletheelder]

You can print a list of prospective elders. That will show you which members are in the HPG simply because of their age.

I'm not at Church right now. I've tried sorting such a report on 'age' and then printing it. The report always prints in alphabetical order, I believe. It would be very helpful to sort, perhaps on any of the columns, and then print the report in that format. Is this possible?

[aebrown]

I'm not at Church right now. I've tried sorting such a report on 'age' and then printing it. The report always prints in alphabetical order, I believe. It would be very helpful to sort, perhaps on any of the columns, and then print the report in that format. Is this possible?

The easiest way to get a list of the Prospective Elders is to go to Reports/Forms > Unit Statistics, then click on Prospective Elders. The report that is displayed does not have an Age column, but it does have a birthdate column, which is pretty much the same thing. You can click on any of the column headers to sort by that column before you print the report.

[coletheelder]

Thank you for identifying an alternative solution. But how about making our reports more user-friendly (a not-so-new concept) by calculating an Age instead of just plugging in a Birth date. Computers are so fast these days.

[coletheelder]

What do you mean in your post when you refer to a list "That will show you which members are in the HPG simply because of their age."?

I know from experience that age 50 or 55 has been used as a practical approach to delineating between the Elders Quorum and the HPG, thus keeping the younger, hail, and hearty men separated from the old men, like myself.

However, in an earlier reply when I asked for a definitive answer, it was "Definitive answer: It's up to the bishop to decide what's in the best interest of the member(s) involved." Are you suggesting that the Bishop could use an age such as 50 or 55, for example, as a quick reference guide as to who attends the Elders Quorum versus who attend the HPG?

If that is still a practical approach, a reasonable approach, call it what you will, for that end of the age spectrum, then our only trials and tribulations will come from the Leaders getting it right for the young men in the 18-30 age range. Is that a reasonable assumption on my part for putting "square pegs in round holes"?

[aebrown]

What do you mean in your post when you refer to a list "That will show you which members are in the HPG simply because of their age."?

I said absolutely nothing about older brethren. I was speaking only of males who do not hold the MP who turn 19, and thus are classified as Prospective Elders, and thus are automatically moved into the HPG. Everything you said about older brethren is an entirely new topic.

[coletheelder]

Now you're telling me that those Prospective Elders that are age 19 "are automatically moved into the HPG." I wish we could have gotten all the 'automatics' out of the way at the beginning of this thread. What are the other 'automatics' that I need to know about and where are they documented?

OK, and just where can I find out "about older brethren in an entirely new topic."? This topic causes a lot of angst among our leaders and leaves a lot to be desired in terms of guidelines. I think you'll have to admit that older "members are in the HPG simply because of their age", and that's how I was also interpreting what you said.

You've got me so buried in these threads that it's getting difficult "to see the forest for the trees"! And I thought I was still doing OK for myself at age 77.

[russellhltn]

The difinitive guide is the Handbook. Handbook 1 is only for the Bishopric. But you can read Handbook 2 here.

Now, how the leadership interprets the guidelines is a different matter. Some may use simplistic rules. Others may go more by the spirit.

[lajackson]

Now you're telling me that those Prospective Elders that are age 19 "are automatically moved into the HPG." I wish we could have gotten all the 'automatics' out of the way at the beginning of this thread. What are the other 'automatics' that I need to know about and where are they documented?

MLS generally follows the procedures outlined in the Handbooks. It is the Handbook that says a young man becomes a Prospective Elder at age 19 if he is not ordained an elder. It is the Handbook that says the high priests group has primary responsibility for prospective elders. MLS simply does with a membership record what the Handbook says should happen to a member without any intervention by the bishop.

This topic causes a lot of angst among our leaders and leaves a lot to be desired in terms of guidelines.

When you mention "angst among our leaders", I always recommend going to the Handbook first. Everything else follows from there. Even the MLS software, oddly enough.