Joint Custody Kids

Discuss questions around local unit policies for membership (creating records, transferring records, etc.) This forum should not contain specific financial or membership information.
kditty-p40
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Joint Custody Kids

Postby kditty-p40 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:44 am

New to the forum, thanks for all your wisdom. We have a few children who only live with their father in our ward 1 weekend a month, so it makes sense that their records are currently out of our ward with their mother.

But we would like to be able to have them on our primary lists. I read the wiki about temporary records, and it doesn't quite seem to fit.

Can someone give me some guidance on this?

jdlessley
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Postby jdlessley » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:20 am

kditty wrote:New to the forum, thanks for all your wisdom. We have a few children who only live with their father in our ward 1 weekend a month, so it makes sense that their records are currently out of our ward with their mother.

But we would like to be able to have them on our primary lists. I read the wiki about temporary records, and it doesn't quite seem to fit.
Why don't you think a temporary record will fit the situation? You are only creating a record that only exists in your ward's MLS. No data will be transmitted to Church headquarters. This record will not affect their official record. Since you only want to get their names on lists and directories this will work just fine.

If for some reason you want their official membership record number to be included in your MLS records then I would use an out of unit record. You will need as a minimum their membership number to create this record. Getting a copy of their IOS would have all the information you need to create a complete record.

Either a temporary record or an out of unit record will provide the ability to get the children's names into MLS for ward lists and directories.
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:52 pm

jdlessley wrote:Either a temporary record or an out of unit record will provide the ability to get the children's names into MLS for ward lists and directories.


I don't have access to my test MLS install - but can you crate a temporary member record? I thought it was for non-members that you wanted listed. They may not show up in some rolls. I think the out of unit member may be a better fit.
Have you searched the Wiki?
Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

kditty-p40
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Postby kditty-p40 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:05 pm

I only see an option for the out of unit, which i believe asks for their record number.

If there is another option, i would love to hear it.

jdlessley
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Postby jdlessley » Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:13 pm

RussellHltn wrote:I don't have access to my test MLS install - but can you crate a temporary member record? I thought it was for non-members that you wanted listed. They may not show up in some rolls. I think the out of unit member may be a better fit.
I created a temporary record for myself in the test database. I don't know if that is a good test of whether that is a good way to create the record since there is no actual send/receive done to confirm acceptance of a person with a member record as a nonmember. Another limitation to a temporary record is there is no birthdate for the record. Because of this the person will not automatically show up in any organizations or classes. But they can be added manually. I would also prefer the out of unit record for the easier management of rolls.
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?

jdlessley
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Postby jdlessley » Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:23 pm

kditty wrote:I only see an option for the out of unit, which i believe asks for their record number.

If there is another option, i would love to hear it.
A temporary record is normally created for a nonmember. To create a temporary record select Membership > Records > Nonmember Record from the main menu.

An out of unit record does require as a minimum the record number or membership number to create the record. Normally an IOS for the out of unit member is obtained and the information from that used to create the record.
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?

kisaac
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Topugh problem, any solution?

Postby kisaac » Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:28 pm

RussellHltn wrote:I don't have access to my test MLS install - but can you crate a temporary member record? I thought it was for non-members that you wanted listed. They may not show up in some rolls. I think the out of unit member may be a better fit.


The problem we have with MLS is as quoted above. We have both non-member youth and part custody members, and they are extremely regular attenders, but I don't know a way to make them appear as full members of the ward.

One primary-aged, regular attending girl cried because they forgot her birthday, as she is not a member and does not appear on the primary birthday list. Everyone felt horrible, but we work from those MLS lists. I believe temporary memberships may show on the directory list, but not on the lists that make sure that the kids and youth get called for activity days, or on the primary birthday lists, or on the bishoprics "action lists" for overdue priesthood ordinations, interviews, etc.

I don't know of a workable solution to make a non-member or temporary member (not talking here about an "unbaptized child-of-record" of ward members) appear as if they have records in your ward.

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Postby aebrown » Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:54 pm

kisaac wrote:The problem we have with MLS is as quoted above. We have both non-member youth and part custody members, and they are extremely regular attenders, but I don't know a way to make them appear as full members of the ward.


An Out of Unit member will appear just like any other member. People with such records will indeed appear on class lists, birthday lists, etc. An out of unit member has a birthday, and will automatically be added to classes based on that birthdate.

But a non-member record is quite a different thing. I would assume it is because of privacy concerns, but there is no birthdate associated with a non-member. Thus there can be no automatic membership in classes, inclusion on birthday lists, etc.

So if these people are members, you should definitely make the effort to gather the required information and make them Out of Unit members -- that will satisfy all the requirements you mentioned. If they're not members, then you won't be able to have nearly as much information on them, and so the MLS experience won't be nearly as nice.
Questions that can benefit the larger community should be asked in a public forum, not a private message.

jdlessley
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Postby jdlessley » Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:56 pm

kisaac wrote:One primary-aged, regular attending girl cried because they forgot her birthday, as she is not a member and does not appear on the primary birthday list.
This is a limitation of MLS for nonmembers. A nonmember record does not have an option to enter the birthdate. It is this missing piece of data that excludes them from most lists.

kisaac wrote:I believe temporary memberships may show on the directory list, but not on the lists that make sure that the kids and youth get called for activity days, or on the primary birthday lists, or on the bishoprics "action lists" for overdue priesthood ordinations, interviews, etc.
Nonmembers should not show up on the action lists, overdue priesthood ordinations, and interview lists simply because they are not members. Treating them as members is, in many respects, doing them a disservice. But I agree that fellowshipping a nonmember as you would any member is vitally important in their eventual conversion.

Nonmembers will always need special attention. When we forget that they are not yet members we are forgetting an important part of their eternal salvation.

Part custody members can be fully integrated to the appropriate level needed. For these children I recommend entering them into MLS as out of unit members whenever possible to get the full support through rolls, lists, and directories created from MLS.
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?

kisaac
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perhaps a change in MLS "non-member" record.

Postby kisaac » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:56 pm

jdlessley wrote:This is a limitation of MLS for nonmembers. A nonmember record does not have an option to enter the birthdate. It is this missing piece of data that excludes them from most lists.

Nonmembers should not show up on the action lists, overdue priesthood ordinations, and interview lists simply because they are not members. Treating them as members is, in many respects, doing them a disservice. But I agree that fellowshipping a nonmember as you would any member is vitally important in their eventual conversion.


While this thread is about members sharing custody and whose record is out of unit, and it seems that it has been answered, I'll step aside the thread direction for just this comment.

I know that "active non-members" exist, and should become a member for the sake of their eternal salvation. However, there are reasons that these people exist in our ward-mostly youth not baptized due to non-member parental objections to baptism but not to church activity. I would hope they continue to feel like a member in every respect until the time they can be baptized.

Why couldn't a record be created, locally in our ward, that would assist us in our fellowshipping? If this would be made easier by including the birthdate on a "non-member record," then I'm all for a change in MLS to make that happen with local approval. If these potential members appeared on the action and interview lists as they approach scout age, or baptism age, or young women age, like any other youth, it would serve as a reminder for the ward that there is an upcoming fellowshipping opportunity.


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