Child record duplicates

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Henrywhuillas
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Child record duplicates

Postby Henrywhuillas » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:49 pm

I tried to create a record of a newly baptized from primary and when i tried to create her record it makes a duplicate unlike with the other child that has a record and when they get baptized
there is no name duplication. How should i do this?

eblood66
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Re: Child record duplicates

Postby eblood66 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:14 am

If a child already has a record then you should record the baptism using Membership > Ordinances from the LCR menu and select Baptism and Confirmation from the drop down. Only use Membership > Create Record if the child does not already have a record. This is pretty uncommon because in most cases when a child without a record is baptized it is a convert baptism and is recorded by the mission office. In that case the clerk has to wait for the record to show up after the mission office creates it and then just print the baptism certificate rather than creating a record and recording the baptism himself.

drepouille
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Re: Child record duplicates

Postby drepouille » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:18 am

When the mission office creates a record after a convert baptism, they do not record who performed the ordinances. Before I can print a certificate from LCR, I must enter that information into the newly created record. If someone from outside my unit performed either ordinance, I must obtain his MRN or his name and birthdate from him.
Dana Repouille, Plattsmouth, Nebraska

russellhltn
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Re: Child record duplicates

Postby russellhltn » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:43 am

drepouille wrote:If someone from outside my unit performed either ordinance, I must obtain his MRN or his name and birthdate from him.

Since I don't think there's any long term record of who performed the ordinance, I suspect there's a way around the MRN or birthdate requirement.
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eblood66
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Re: Child record duplicates

Postby eblood66 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:34 am

russellhltn wrote:Since I don't think there's any long term record of who performed the ordinance

That used to be the case but I'm not sure it is any longer. Looking at a family who recently moved in it shows who did the baptism information for their child. That makes sense because now that baptisms are entered in LCR the storage has to be done at CHQ rather than on local systems. It would actually require extra work to clear the information.
russellhltn wrote:I suspect there's a way around the MRN or birthdate requirement.

You can print a certificate without information about who did the baptism. It adjusts the wording of the certificate accordingly. Otherwise, you do have to have the MRN or birthdate. There is no option to enter a name and priesthood manually--they have to come from a membership record.

russellhltn
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Re: Child record duplicates

Postby russellhltn » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:28 pm

eblood66 wrote:
russellhltn wrote:Since I don't think there's any long term record of who performed the ordinance

That used to be the case but I'm not sure it is any longer. Looking at a family who recently moved in it shows who did the baptism information for their child. That makes sense because now that baptisms are entered in LCR the storage has to be done at CHQ rather than on local systems. It would actually require extra work to clear the information.

It might be retained in LCR, but I'm not sure as it's in CMIS (the master database of membership records). I'm a little surprised. Most "ordnance by"information was dropped in the great simplification in the late 80's early 90's. But perhaps someone made a usage case for being able to re-print baptismal certificates.
Have you searched the Wiki?

Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

eblood66
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Re: Child record duplicates

Postby eblood66 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:35 pm

russellhltn wrote:It might be retained in LCR, but I'm not sure as it's in CMIS (the master database of membership records). I'm a little surprised. Most "ordnance by"information was dropped in the great simplification in the late 80's early 90's. But perhaps someone made a usage case for being able to re-print baptismal certificates.

Although I could be wrong, I'm pretty sure that CMIS is the only back-end used for membership data in LCR (the other back-end is CDOL but that's for organizations and callings). So I think that if it's in LCR it has to also be in CMIS.

It's possible that they could have created another database for partially transient information but that seems like an unnecessary complication unless there were some legal or very strong policy reason to do so.

russellhltn
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Re: Child record duplicates

Postby russellhltn » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:01 pm

eblood66 wrote:Although I could be wrong, I'm pretty sure that CMIS is the only back-end used for membership data in LCR (the other back-end is CDOL but that's for organizations and callings). So I think that if it's in LCR it has to also be in CMIS.

It's possible that they could have created another database for partially transient information but that seems like an unnecessary complication unless there were some legal or very strong policy reason to do so.

I understand the logic behind your thinking, but consider this: Remember that MLS did have a local database that was never transmitted to CHQ. Things like blessings and HT/VT data.

Now, ask yourself: When LCR was created, did they modify the legacy CMIS backend to hold the data, or did they implement that storage locally? Unlike MLS, once it's in LCR, it's there for all units to see, even if it's not in CMIS.
Have you searched the Wiki?

Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

eblood66
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Re: Child record duplicates

Postby eblood66 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:44 pm

russellhltn wrote:Now, ask yourself: When LCR was created, did they modify the legacy CMIS backend to hold the data, or did they implement that storage locally?

Local to what? You're not going to put a database on the web server, at least not on the scale LCR has to run. So you'd have to create another database server anyway. I'm pretty sure that CMIS is an Oracle database so adding new tables or columns isn't that hard and I doubt there was a reason to create another server. So, my guess is they enhanced CMIS and that is part of why HT/VT and recording ordinances has taken the longest to implement in LCR.

But ultimately, it doesn't really matter if the data is in CMIS or if they created a new database for some of it. It's still one database for all units and it would take extra effort to remove this particular data when moving a record. So I expect the it will stay around unless they decide to add a clean up process that purges data that has been around for some length of time. But again, that hardly seems worth the effort without a stronger reason than 'data simplification'.


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