Missing ordinance info

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luvmy8dz-p40
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Missing ordinance info

Postby luvmy8dz-p40 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:03 pm

We have many members--easily 85%--whose records show dates for such things as Baptism, Confirmation, and Priesthood ordinations but lack the names of the persons who performed these ordinances. I have begun the BIG project of contacting Ward members to get this info and many of them are telling me that it was at one time on their records. Did this info get lost in a software update or something like that? Is there any way to get it back besides contacting each member and hoping they either have a good memory or access to their certificates? Along the same lines, if they were baptized/confirmed by a missionary and only know him as "Elder So-and-so" is there any way to get that Elder's first name and birthdate?

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mkmurray
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Postby mkmurray » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:10 pm

luvmy8dz wrote:We have many members--easily 85%--whose records show dates for such things as Baptism, Confirmation, and Priesthood ordinations but lack the names of the persons who performed these ordinances. I have begun the BIG project of contacting Ward members to get this info and many of them are telling me that it was at one time on their records. Did this info get lost in a software update or something like that? Is there any way to get it back besides contacting each member and hoping they either have a good memory or access to their certificates? Along the same lines, if they were baptized/confirmed by a missionary and only know him as "Elder So-and-so" is there any way to get that Elder's first name and birthdate?

As far as the missing ordination stuff, we have that in our ward too (probably same percentage). I don't know how true this is, but someone told me they heard about a database mishap at Church Headquarters a few years ago. I'm not sure if that's the real explanation, but I'm positive you are not the only unit (they are most likely many).

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Postby lajackson » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:39 pm

luvmy8dz wrote:We have many members--easily 85%--whose records show dates for such things as Baptism, Confirmation, and Priesthood ordinations but lack the names of the persons who performed these ordinances.


I do not recall that the names of those performing baptisms and confirmations were kept after the certificates were printed.

Priesthood ordinations, on the other hand, are different. There was a time in the early 90s when a decision was made to no longer record the name of the person performing the ordination. Some years later, it was realized that there would be no way to obtain a priesthood line of authority if the names were not known.

Since that time, there has been a concerted effort to try and figure out who ordained who. That effort is still ongoing. This is one of the rare instances where CHQ was happy that clerks kept the yellow copies of ordination certificates and forms.

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opee
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Postby opee » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:44 pm

The names of the person who baptized and confirmed a member will stay with the record until they move their records from the ward, because it is kept locally and not at church HQ. When the record moves, the data in the baptism and confirmation officiator is not carried. The priesthood line of authority does go with the record when the record is moved.

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Postby russellhltn » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:11 pm

Yes, as a old-time clerk back in the pre-computer days (well, before there was computers in the ward anyway) the paper records DID have the name of the person who did the ordnance work. Even the names of the proxy for temple work was recorded.

However, somewhere along the line, in a careful analysis of the church processes, it was decided that that information was not essential. So it was discarded. Some of you may remember that day, because it was the same time the mag card readers where removed from the temple. The purpose of the mag cards was to automate the recording of the name of the proxy. Since that data was no longer captured, the equipment was removed.

Then some years later, someone realized that we really do need to keep that information for Priesthood ordinations. Line of authority and things like that. So we had to round up our paper records and fill in the blanks.

But luvmy8dz, I really wouldn't worry about it. Except for the priesthood, the information isn't kept in the master computer in SLC. So don't bother.

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mkmurray
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Postby mkmurray » Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:33 am

Another thing I'm noticing is that not only do some people have no name listed by priesthood ordinations, but in some cases, there is a name but no membership record number either.

When we have tithing settlement this year, I will be trying to approach as many people as possible to get this information filled in. Hopefully if every unit around the Church attempts to do this yearly, we can get almost all of that information back on the records.

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opee
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Postby opee » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:01 am

About a year ago, a letter from the Membership Department (as mentioned previously in this thread) asked clerks to send in MP paperwork from the 1990s so that they could update the MP records that were not recorded during that time.

As a newly called clerk, I searched our Stake Offices and found about 100 ordination records from the requested time period that were never discarded.

I feel pretty certain that most of our clerk filing cabinets throughout the Church have similar old records of MP ordination names that could be sent to HQ to help fill in these blanks.

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Postby russellhltn » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:51 am

mkmurray wrote:Another thing I'm noticing is that not only do some people have no name listed by priesthood ordinations, but in some cases, there is a name but no membership record number either.


I'll add to my previous statement that I think they're only interested in the MP ordinations - and even then, maybe only the last one.

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Postby mkmurray » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:53 am

RussellHltn wrote:I'll add to my previous statement that I think they're only interested in the MP ordinations - and even then, maybe only the last one.

For line of authority, isn't the conferral of the MP the only thing that matters? So why keep ordinations to certain offices, and then especially only keeping the last one?

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Postby russellhltn » Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:04 am

mkmurray wrote:For line of authority, isn't the conferral of the MP the only thing that matters? So why keep ordinations to certain offices, and then especially only keeping the last one?


I'm trying to remember. I know this was hashed out on the clerks list some years back. I think the conferring of later keys supersedes the prior one. For example, if you're a High Priest, then does it really matter how you were ordained an Elder?

One the other side, I think it creates some issues as to any ordinations that were made while still an Elder.

Maybe Allan or Larry remembers the details.


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