Insuring that ordinations are recorded

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barryhill
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Insuring that ordinations are recorded

Postby barryhill » Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:49 pm

I thought I would jump on this thread rather than make a new one. Let me know if that is an issue;

I am very interested in input on what vehicle is in supposed to be n place to keep ordinations from slipping through the cracks. A boy will be sustained for ordination. Him or his dad will not be there that week or visitors will be there with the family and unless the clerk is very vigilant with follow-up you never know exactly who does the ordaining, when or where it is done. A clerk can invent some system but with something this important it seems there would be a fail-safe system in place. Is there a policy system? If not, who has a system that is very reliable?

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:36 pm

barryhill wrote:I thought I would jump on this thread rather than make a new one. Let me know if that is an issue;


[Moderator Note: I split this post off from the thread Priesthood Ordinances not recorded since it deals with a different topic.]

barryhill wrote:I am very interested in input on what vehicle is in supposed to be n place to keep ordinations from slipping through the cracks. A boy will be sustained for ordination. Him or his dad will not be there that week or visitors will be there with the family and unless the clerk is very vigilant with follow-up you never know exactly who does the ordaining, when or where it is done. A clerk can invent some system but with something this important it seems there would be a fail-safe system in place. Is there a policy system? If not, who has a system that is very reliable?


In Handbook 2, Section 20.7.2, it says that the stake president or his representative should be present at the ordination. In our stake, it is almost always a high councilor. He takes the MP Ordination Record with him to the ordination and makes sure that everything gets filled in, and returns the paperwork to the stake clerk, who records the ordination and prepares the certificate for signature by the stake president, then he gives the certificate to the high councilor, who also signs the certificate and delivers it to the ordained brother.
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barryhill
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Postby barryhill » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:57 am

Actually I was speaking of the Aaronic PH ordinations that the Ward Clerk has the resposibility for entering. We have had situations where they are sustained one week and 3 weeks later the father or a brother ... ordains them. Even when it happens the same Sunday, the clerk is seldom present and there is no syspematic method to keep it from falling through the cracks. I did a pretty good job by continually pestering until someone told me who ordained the individual and when but there must be a more fail proof system.

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Postby Gary_Miller » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:28 am

There are forms in MLS for all ordinances that happens at the ward level. It should be printed and given to the bishop at interview time and should be returned to the clerks when the ordnance is completed. Then and only then should the clerk enter the information in the MLS and print out a certificate.

Our clerks office has adopted the policy of if we don't get the paper work back with the information then the ordinance, calling, sustaining, and setting apart did not happen.

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:29 am

barryhill wrote:Actually I was speaking of the Aaronic PH ordinations that the Ward Clerk has the resposibility for entering. We have had situations where they are sustained one week and 3 weeks later the father or a brother ... ordains them. Even when it happens the same Sunday, the clerk is seldom present and there is no syspematic method to keep it from falling through the cracks. I did a pretty good job by continually pestering until someone told me who ordained the individual and when but there must be a more fail proof system.


Sorry I incorrectly assumed it was an MP ordination -- you did say "boy" after all.

But the principle is the same, and it should be easier at the ward level. You said "the clerk is seldom present" but the clerk or some other representative should always be present. This is detailed in the wiki section Responsibility for recording the ordinance, which cites a letter from the Presiding Bishopric on the topic.
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sammythesm
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Postby sammythesm » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:58 am

So, I'll take this one a step further and highlight the challenge of keeping the ward callings up to date as well. A lot of times the Bishop/ric will work something offline (outside of bishopric meeting) and the first time the clerk hears of it will be over the podium. This became more common when we were trained to focus more on individuals in meetings rather than in going over sacrement meeting agendas, etc. I tried to institute paperwork (i.e. they gave the clerk a copy of of the agenda for sacrament meeting after the fact), but that never really worked either. And don't even get me started on whether the little check box for whether they were set apart ever got checked or not checked.

It's almost like an 'action items' app or form would be useful for all members of the bishopric. They would build themselves a list of "to dos" and be asked to document everything they did after they did it. Perhaps it sync'd with the clerk's version of the app so he could record it all. Then you know that the work got done on any given Sunday, and perhaps it would also be easier for counselors to push tasks between each other to help each other out.

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johnshaw
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Postby johnshaw » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:20 am

Sammythesm,

There has to exist some very interesting reasoning for not creating this kind of solution. The amount of time and effort it would save Bishoprics, Stake Presidencies, High Councils, etc.. makes this an extremely useful solution. Your idea would need to be enhanced to include callings, setting apart, ordinations, tracking through a ward to a stake and back again, etc... I've mentioned this a few times on the boards and submitted it to the Church in feedback. I can't fathom the number of systems (and therefore volunteer hours) that are invented regularly to mange these processes in a ward and stake.
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falcon771
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Actions items

Postby falcon771 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:05 pm

sammythesm wrote:It's almost like an 'action items' app or form would be useful for all members of the bishopric. They would build themselves a list of "to dos" and be asked to document everything they did after they did it. Perhaps it sync'd with the clerk's version of the app so he could record it all. Then you know that the work got done on any given Sunday, and perhaps it would also be easier for counselors to push tasks between each other to help each other out.


We created a Google Doc (now Drive) document that lists everything that needs to be done. We have incorporated the Action and Interview list and temple recommend expiration (current month, next month, plus expired 1 month or less and 3 moths or less). This is a private document that only the Bishop, counselors, Ward Clerk and Exec Sec have access too. We all have smart phones, so checking what needs to be done, sorted by date, makes assignments easier to make and follow-up on.

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We review the list each week in Bishopric meeting. I try and have it updated prior to each meeting, but normally just requires once a month additions. The Bishopric does the rest.

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Re: Insuring that ordinations are recorded

Postby jpjones~ogr » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:18 pm

I've tried keeping lists, which can be a reliable tool for some Bishops but not all.

I've moved to printing interview forms as soon as I hear that an ordinance is pending. The forms go on the Bishops desk, and most times I get them back with the information needed. I prefer to have a certificate ready for signature on the day of or day after the ordinance. I'll use my meeting minutes to remind me to ask about completion of an ordinance.

Our current Executive Secretary voluntarily started reminding me of the need for ordinances because he schedules the interviews and realized there can be a delay in getting records updated.

My current Bishop admits he's technologically challenged. His official Palm Pilot is a pen and the palm of his hand. Other than that he has a rather good memory. He also takes notes to share but sometimes loses them. The counselors also help remember to update records and prepare certificates.

sgcurtis
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Re: Insuring that ordinations are recorded

Postby sgcurtis » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:37 am

When serving as ward clerk, I printed up the Aaronic Priesthood ordination forms for each young man when approaching the ordination date. That was my "to-do" list for ordinations. During bishopric meeting, I would ask about plans for the ordination and make a note across the top indicating "7:30 at the Jones home" or "1/27 in Teachers' quorum -- Grandfather to ordain" as some reference to the expected ordination plan. That seemed to work ok. I or an assistant would try to attend as many as possible that took place during the meeting block.

As for keeping track of callings, I assigned an assistant clerk that responsibility. His task during sacrament meeting was to record the business conducted -- who was called and who was released. He then was assigned the task of making the changes in MLS. This had several benefits, perhaps none better than the fact that he had no knowledge of conversations in bishopric meeting. He never had to worry about, "Wait, did we actually sustain Sister Smith today? I know they talked about it..."

I don't think there's a perfect way, but those two things seemed to help me.


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