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Discuss questions around local unit policies for budgeting, reconciling, etc. This forum should not contain specific financial or membership information.
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wrigjef
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Postby wrigjef » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:49 pm

Need some verification here. On an I/E report of the other category, the top line is "AMFA:" then the lines beneath are "AMFA:___" as defined by the unit. My current understanding is that the top line IS NOT a parent but rather an undefined subcatecory. So on an audit worksheet where the totals of subcategories are added together to get a balance for line 1, the top line should be included in that grand total.

If this is indeed the case, how would I go about suggesting to SL that the top line item in AMFA be altered to read "AMFA: Undefined" or something similar?

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Postby jdlessley » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:26 pm

wrigjef wrote:Need some verification here. On an I/E report of the other category, the top line is "AMFA:" then the lines beneath are "AMFA:___" as defined by the unit. My current understanding is that the top line IS NOT a parent but rather an undefined subcatecory. So on an audit worksheet where the totals of subcategories are added together to get a balance for line 1, the top line should be included in that grand total.

I don't think it is necessary to alter the "Other" subcategory name. It is in fact a parent of any locally created categories. It is also a subcategory of "Other". It is just that no transactions can be entered into it. It only provides convenient bookkeeping organization.

When entering in subcategory titles on the "Other" category reconciliation worksheet I just put 'AMFA:Scout Camp 2011' as the subcategory name. It may be semantics as to whether it is a sub-subcategory or a subcategory. I actually think the audit checklist needs to be changed to more adequately address the current situation found in MLS category, subcategory, and sub-subcategory organization. The definitions in Section I of the checklist for '"Other" category:' and '"Other" subcategory:' can be a bit confusing unless one knows how things were before the CUBS transition.
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Postby aebrown » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:44 am

jdlessley wrote:I don't think it is necessary to alter the "Other" subcategory name. It is in fact a parent of any locally created categories. It is also a subcategory of "Other". It is just that no transactions can be entered into it. It only provides convenient bookkeeping organization.


Transactions can indeed be entered into the Other:AMFA category. For most units, that is the category where interest on the balance of the entire Other category is posted each month. So the Church automatically enters transactions into that category. And then, since we're not supposed to carry a balance there, you occasionally will need to move that money somewhere (see Interest Transferred to other Account for a discussion of where that might go). To do that, you have to create a transfer transaction in that category.
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Postby wrigjef » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:48 am

jdlessley wrote:I don't think it is necessary to alter the "Other" subcategory name. It is in fact a parent of any locally created categories. It is also a subcategory of "Other". It is just that no transactions can be entered into it. It only provides convenient bookkeeping organization.

When entering in subcategory titles on the "Other" category reconciliation worksheet I just put 'AMFA:Scout Camp 2011' as the subcategory name. It may be semantics as to whether it is a sub-subcategory or a subcategory.


My concern is that I am understanding things correctly. While the top line "AMFA:" does appear to be a parent, I know transactions can be conducted in it and wonder if its balance should be included when reconciling the other category.

I'm also concerned that I may be missing something. What exactly is the difference between sub-category and subcategory other then syntax?

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Postby aebrown » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:46 am

wrigjef wrote:My concern is that I am understanding things correctly. While the top line "AMFA:" does appear to be a parent, I know transactions can be conducted in it and wonder if its balance should be included when reconciling the other category.


Its balance must definitely be included when reconciling the Other category for the audit. Otherwise you won't be able to balance, since any amounts in the top line AMFA category are included in the amount listed on your Unit Financial Statement for the Other category.

wrigjef wrote:I'm also concerned that I may be missing something. What exactly is the difference between sub-category and subcategory other then syntax?


I think you meant "sub-subcategory". There is no real difference between subcategories and sub-subcategories (or sub-sub-subcategories, for that matter). It's just a question of how deep they are in the hierarchy of categories.
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Postby wrigjef » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:01 am

aebrown wrote:Its balance must definitely be included when reconciling the Other category for the audit. Otherwise you won't be able to balance, since any amounts in the top line AMFA category are included in the amount listed on your Unit Financial Statement for the Other category.


So I am corect that the top line is a seperate piece of the other category and should be treated just as any of the subcategories (except for the fact that technacly it should have a 0 balance except for the interest transfers that the church makes into it and the manual transfers we make out of it to maintan a 0 balance).

Wouldn't you agree that some confusion would be eliminated by calling this top line "AMFA: Undefined"? I think I am going to go out with a message to my clerks saying that this is a separate balance that should be factored in when reconciling other and that since all AMFA funds should have purposes, the goal would not to have any balance in it except for the small interest payments. Then periodically, definitely the month prior to the end of an audit period, that small balance needs to be cleared out.

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Postby aebrown » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:32 am

wrigjef wrote:Wouldn't you agree that some confusion would be eliminated by calling this top line "AMFA: Undefined"?


I don't think so. The Other:AMFA category is just like any other second-level category. It's no different from Budget:Young Men. You can have subcategories under Budget:Young Men, such as Budget:Young Men:Priests, Budget:Young Men:Teachers, and Budget:Young Men:Deacons. But there is still the parent category Budget:Young Men. That is exactly analogous to Other:AMFA, which can have Other:AMFA:Scout Camp, Other:AFMA:Magazines, etc.

In my ideal world, the Other:AMFA category would be completely disabled, and interest would be posted to Ward Missionary, like it used to be. But I doubt that will happen.
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Postby jdlessley » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:48 pm

aebrown wrote:Transactions can indeed be entered into the Other:AMFA category.
Sorry for adding confusion. I should have been more clear in stating the AMFA category should not have any contributions applied or deposited directly into it and then have those funds expensed from it. That category essentially is the same in purpose as the pre-CUBS handling of the "Other" account. Any funds deposited from contributions should be into a sub-category of AMFA. CHQ will use that category to make adjustments and deposits (such as interest earned). The local unit then can transfer the funds to clear funds from the category.
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Postby wrigjef » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:55 pm

aebrown wrote:In my ideal world, the Other:AMFA category would be completely disabled, and interest would be posted to Ward Missionary, like it used to be. But I doubt that will happen.
Completely agree with that. Even if they disabled Other:AMFA, then created an Other:Interest that would help. But eventhough the top line is not really a numerical parent, it is a title parent and I'd bet that some somewhare needs it to build subcategory titles.

The way you explain it makes complete sence to me, now I guess it's my job to help it make sence to the other clerks.

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Postby jdlessley » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:01 pm

wrigjef wrote:I think I am going to go out with a message to my clerks saying that this is a separate balance that should be factored in when reconciling other and that since all AMFA funds should have purposes, the goal would not to have any balance in it except for the small interest payments. Then periodically, definitely the month prior to the end of an audit period, that small balance needs to be cleared out.
Sounds reasonable to me. This interest earned issue has been discussed in other threads. It does create a problem for the finance clerk since the amount is usually small and can be overlooked and forgotten about.
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