YW Fund Raiser: Other and Budget Accounts

Discuss questions around local unit policies for budgeting, reconciling, etc. This forum should not contain specific financial or membership information.
crislapi
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Postby crislapi » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:42 am

aebrown wrote:You are thinking it has to be two separate checks because the check was written from Budget and Other. But that has not been a restriction since the CUBS transition -- you can now write a single check from multiple major categories.

I didn't know that. I'd saw a recent post about it. At my last read of it, it seemed the conclusion was this was in error. This was a very quiet feature added to MLS if even you just found out about it 3 weeks ago. :)

If it is a single check and the total amount does not change, then yes, adjusting the amount taken from each subcategory should be fine. Still, it seems different adjusting a check where all the categories are Budget categories (same account) compared to when it is Other and Budget (different accounts). I guess CHQ just has the bank transfer the funds to cover the adjustment. If the system allows it and is capable of doing it, then why not?

greggo
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Postby greggo » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:57 am

aebrown wrote:But you saved yourself a check and a deposit transaction.


This may be the "cleaner" way of doing it, but I would prefer have the full amount of the check come from the Other:AMFA:YW Camp and then reimburse the balance from Budget:YW with a second check.
This way, when looking at the income and expense report for the Other:AMFA:YW Camp category it is easy to see how much the actual expenses were for the YW Camp and how much was offset by the fundraiser.

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Postby jdlessley » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:46 am

greggo wrote:This may be the "cleaner" way of doing it, but I would prefer have the full amount of the check come from the Other:AMFA:YW Camp and then reimburse the balance from Budget:YW with a second check.
This way, when looking at the income and expense report for the Other:AMFA:YW Camp category it is easy to see how much the actual expenses were for the YW Camp and how much was offset by the fundraiser.
Yes, this is my prefered way of doing it. But we are discussing methods to rectify a situation that has been done another way. Perhaps others will see the issues and headaches involved when doing it the way the OP described.
JD Lessley
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ralitaco
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Postby ralitaco » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:32 pm

Thank you everyone for the responses.

I think the best place to start is with the donations we recieved AFTER the check was written because this seems more straight-forward:
From all the responses, I have learned / decided on the following:
1. All of the donations (before and after the check was written) should have been depositted into the AMFA:OTHER:YW Camp subcategory and NOT the BUDGET:YW subcategory.
2. To change the Subcategories where the donations were assigned, I need to edit the deposits containing the donations & document why I made the changes. (just as JD described in post 3)

Next, the Original Check issue:
(Just to clarify, one check was written and the funds were "charged" to the Budget: YW & AMFA:OTHER: YW Camp.)
I have read and re-read the training on "Understanding and Using the Other Category." On slide 28, at the bottom, it states:
"NOTE: If you know that the funds collected in an "Other" subcategory will not cover the costs they are intended for, you can prevent a deficit by transferring the funds from a budget subcategory to the "Other" subcategory.
To transfer funds from a budget subcategory, print a check, payable to the unit, from the budget subcategory, and deposit it in the "Other" subcategory."

From that and a few other places, I have come to the conclusion that the check for YW Camp should have ALL come out of the AMFA:Other:YW Camp subcategory. If there was not enough money in the AMFA:Other:YW Camp subcategory, then I should have written a check and depositted it into the AMFA:Other:YW Camp subcategory. (just as greggo said)
But, since I didn't do that, I think that I will leave the original check subcategories as they are. Then after I correct the donations issue and have funds available in the AMFA:Other:YW Camp subcategory, I will write a check out of the AMFA:Other:YW Camp subcategory payable to the BUDGET:YW subcategory to "refund" the money spent out of the BUDGET:YW subcategory following the instructions on slide 32 of Understanding the Other Account.

On a side note, because of slide 32; I am going to respectfully disagree with aebrown. While I agree that it would be a lot easier, I don't think it is proper to simply adjust the categories of the check to correct where the money came from. If that was the proper/acceptable method, then I would've expected the training to indicate that.
Perhaps this is a new option available in CUBS and the training is outdated. If so, new training docs would be great.

Again, thanks to everyone: JD, AE, Russel, Cris and Greg. I really appreciate your wisdom and willingness to assist.

Jim

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:56 pm

ralitaco wrote:On a side note, because of slide 32; I am going to respectfully disagree with aebrown. While I agree that it would be a lot easier, I don't think it is proper to simply adjust the categories of the check to correct where the money came from. If that was the proper/acceptable method, then I would've expected the training to indicate that.
Perhaps this is a new option available in CUBS and the training is outdated. If so, new training docs would be great.


I think there were some good arguments made for writing the check entirely from Other:AMFA:YW Camp. Had you done that originally, I would completely agree. In any case, what you have decided to do will work just fine.

I would note that the training is most definitely out of date. When the training was made, there was no option for writing a check from more than one major category. It's also abundantly clear that the training only covers a very narrow range of the procedures clerks need to do, and can do, and so I see no reason to draw any conclusions from the limited training failing to mention an option. Adjusting expense categories after the fact is certainly not any different from adjusting donation categories after the fact. So I'm going to respectfully disagree with your disagreement. :) But as I said, your planned course of action should be okay.

As for new training, I've been begging for that for over two years (the current training is 3 years old, but portions of it were out of date in 2009). Whenever I make those suggestions, I am thanked politely for my request, but nothing has happened. I'm not holding my breath for new training any time soon....
Questions that can benefit the larger community should be asked in a public forum, not a private message.

crislapi
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Postby crislapi » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:57 pm

ralitaco wrote:I will write a check out of the AMFA:Other:YW Camp subcategory payable to the BUDGET:YW subcategory to "refund" the money spent out of the BUDGET:YW subcategory following the instructions on slide 32 of Understanding the Other Account.

Just a note here. Make sure you have a very specific purpose line on this check or CHQ may change your deposit category back to Other. They do not like funds being transferred from Other to Budget and unless they can see a reason for it, they will supercede you on this. This is one reason why aebrown's suggestion may be best.

ralitaco wrote:On a side note, because of slide 32; I am going to respectfully disagree with aebrown. While I agree that it would be a lot easier, I don't think it is proper to simply adjust the categories of the check to correct where the money came from. If that was the proper/acceptable method, then I would've expected the training to indicate that.
Perhaps this is a new option available in CUBS and the training is outdated. If so, new training docs would be great.

The only point I would make (and you noted it yourself) is that these training slides were created long before CUBS was released and they have not been updated to reflect changes CUBS introduced (for example, they still have a training on reconciling, something we haven't had to do since Oct 2010). If you are not comfortable doing it, that's one thing, but don't rule it out just because it's not mentioned in outdated documentation.

ralitaco
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Postby ralitaco » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:09 pm

aebrown wrote:...I see no reason to draw any conclusions from the limited training failing to mention an option.


crislapi wrote:If you are not comfortable doing it, that's one thing, but don't rule it out just because it's not mentioned in outdated documentation.


Yes the training is out of date, pre-CUBS and only addresses limited procedures. However, it is my understanding that even in the old system, the software would allow you to change the category of an expense (i.e.- Budget:YM to Budget:YW) and that you could even change it from a budget to other category.
Slide 32 of the Other Category training addresses "transferring funds when expenses were paid from the WRONG category" and it says, "Sometimes an activity is mistakenly paid for using budget funds even though funds were collected and designated for the activity in the other category"
If CHQ wanted us to simply change the subcategory, why wouldn't the training have said to edit the expense and change the category. Because I agree that would be a lot easier than writing a check. Instead it goes into detail on the process of writing a check. That leads me to believe that CHQ has a reason for us NOT to just change the category. I am presuming it has to do with the Budget vs Other funds (as was mentioned in earlier responses). Afterall, if I mistakenly selected Budget:YM instead of Budget:YW, I would not have to write a check to correct that mistake.

Here is my logic as to why I feel like my situation is addressed by this slide.
1. The expense should have been paid for entirely out of the Other:AMFA:YW Camp subcategory
2. Had the check been expensed ENTIRELY out of the Budget:YW subcategory, there would be no question as to what to do as slide 32 addresses that situation specifically.
3. Yes I have 2 categories on the expense, but I contest that the portion of the check that came from the Budget:YW subcategory was "mistakenly paid using budget funds" just as slide 32 describes.
4. The amount that was mistakenly charged to the budget needs to be corrected.
5. The only documented method to correct this is to write a check as described on slide 32.

Again, I am grateful for you input and I know what I am going to do to correct our mess.
Both of you and many others, have been immensely helpful to me since I have started in this calling about a year ago. But, I am still not sold on simply adjusting the amounts in the subcategories since one is Budget and one is Other. Perhaps something has changed on the accounting side of things that would make adjusting budget/other categories okay in CUBS where it was not okay with the old software.

If they ever start putting together new training, I would love to be a part of it.
Jim

crislapi
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Postby crislapi » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:39 pm

ralitaco wrote:However, it is my understanding that even in the old system, the software would allow you to change the category of an expense (i.e.- Budget:YM to Budget:YW) and that you could even change it from a budget to other category.

Just to clarify, it would not let you switch major category on a saved expense. It also wouldn't let you cut a single check from multiple major categories (Other, FO, Budget, Ward Missionary).

ralitaco wrote:Slide 32 of the Other Category training addresses "transferring funds when expenses were paid from the WRONG category" ...
5. The only documented method to correct this is to write a check as described on slide 32.

That slide details how to handle your situation exactly. Given that, I, too, would choose to follow the instructions there.

ralitaco wrote:Both of you and many others, have been immensely helpful to me since I have started in this calling about a year ago. But, I am still not sold on simply adjusting the amounts in the subcategories since one is Budget and one is Other. Perhaps something has changed on the accounting side of things that would make adjusting budget/other categories okay in CUBS where it was not okay with the old software.

I would say in response that you have arrived! You know where the various resources are, you know how to use them, and have confidence in your understanding. Sounds like you should be a senior member!

Aczlan
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Postby Aczlan » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:56 pm

I am surprised that it only recently became possible to cut a check form multiple major categories. That was a feature that I used when I served as the Mission Financial Secretary in 2005-2006.
As I recall from my training with the brother at the area offices who was in charge of auditing the mission finances, the preferred method was to add a matching pair of expense lines to a check.
For example I would put a charge of -$50 on the account 4-5102 (missionary living expenses) and another of +$50 to 4-5300 (rent?) along with a note on each line saying that this was to correct an incorrect charge of $50 in check xxxx from xxx date.
Then print the check for $0, print a note explaining what happened, have the president sign it, mark the check as void and save it along with the documentation in the file with the other check documentation.

Aaron Z

ralitaco
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Postby ralitaco » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:00 pm

crislapi wrote:Just to clarify, it would not let you switch major category on a saved expense. It also wouldn't let you cut a single check from multiple major categories (Other, FO, Budget, Ward Missionary).

That I did not know.
crislapi wrote:Sounds like you should be a senior member!

I don't know about that; although, my kids keep telling me I'm a Senior Citizen. (43 does not qualify)

Seriously, I have just returned from cleaning up our mess. Turns out that the check was written out of ONLY the Budget:YW and not the 2 categories as I first stated. However, there were 2 checks written...long story, not worth explaining.
Anyhow, I editted the deposits and changed the deposit category From Budget - To Other. Then I printed a check out of Other to reimburse the Budget category. The only question I had was how to update SLC; so I called them. I was confused because the training said call or email the information, but there was a "resend' button on the deposit screen. After speaking to a woman with a British accent in SLC, I was informed that all I needed to do was Send/Recieve the changes. Sooooo Easy!

Now I have a new issue: excess funds in the Other:AMFA:YW Camp subcategory. But that's a topic for another time.

Thanks to everyone for your input. It was/is a great help EVERY TIME.
JIM


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