Excess tithing contribution - what to do

[TinMan]

Suppose the woman uses her cancelled checks for her tax deduction justification. What is to prevent her from using the cancelled $800.00 check for tax purposes and not bother to show the IRS the "refund" of $720.00.

Is the Church complicit in tax fraud?

If you write her a check for $720.00, do you have to give her a 1099 at the end of the year?

[Gary_Miller]

Is the Church complicit in tax fraud?

No the member would be as the official tax donation receipt would show the correct amount and that is what the tax auditor is likely to ask for.

On the other hand the likely hood of the average middle class american having enough deductions to itemize is slim. The would have to have a large amount of mortgage interest and property taxes payment in order to have enough deductions to make it worth itemizing their deductions, which one must do in order to deduct charitable contributions. IE: Itemized deductions > standard deduction.

If you write her a check for $720.00, do you have to give her a 1099 at the end of the year?

Why would you give her a 1099 its not income. Nor is it a payment for some type of service.

[TinMan]

Why would you give her a 1099 its not income.

I don't know because I am not an accountant or tax lawyer. But I do know that every February I get a long letter from the Church that lists all the reasons you have to give a 1099 to people you have paid over $600.00 to.

That is why I would call and ask about the proper way to refund the overpayment.

[Gary_Miller]

I don't know because I am not an accountant or tax lawyer. But I do know that every February I get a long letter from the Church that lists all the reasons you have to give a 1099 to people you have paid over $600.00 to.

Form 1099-MISC, Miscellaneous Income, used to report to the IRS payments of over $600 in which you have paid any one person for goods and services. In most cases this would mostly be from the Fast Offering account where you may have paid rent or something else to an individual. For the most part a 1099 is not necessary if the money is paid to a corporation.

That is why I would call and ask about the proper way to refund the over payment.

Once again its not a refund it a return for over payment.

And in the mean time while you trying to get a hold of CHQ (not on a Sunday) and waiting for them to make a decision (may not happen overnight). What do you tell the member who needs to pay bills?

[TinMan]

Once again its not a refund it a return for over payment.

And in the mean time while you trying to get a hold of CHQ (not on a Sunday) and waiting for they to make a decision (may not happen overnight). What do you tell the member who needs to pay bills?

Sorry. I missed the part where it was an emergency. I would suggest she talk to family members for a temporary loan of $720. If that wasn't possible, I would offer to cover any bills from Fast Offering Funds until it got straightened out.

[Gary_Miller]

If that wasn't possible, I would offer to cover any bills from Fast Offering Funds until it got straightened out.

While this is well and good and would work for some bills it does not work for everyday expenses or consumer debt.

In order to avoid any further argument we are just going to have to agree there maybe several ways in which to accomplish this. So we will have to agree to disagree and leave it up to the individual Bishop to decide how to handle the situation.

[waynecooke]

Thank you Gary_Miller

[gregwanderson]

It strikes me that this problem might have been avoided if the men counting and verifying the donations allowed themselves to be just a little curious about what they were seeing. If you've been doing the calling for more than a few months you notice patterns. If you stopped long enough to think about who's donating and how much they're donating you'd recognize something unusual was happening before sending the check to the bank for deposit.

The great thing about noticing something unusual is that you have three years worth of MLS data at your fingertips at that very moment. You could easily look up that donor's record to confirm that, yes, this $800 donation is ten times as large as a typical donation from this person. Then give the donor a call before proceeding or, if you think you're being too nosey, let the Bishop call the donor.

It's easy to think that, because you're dealing with confidential matters, you shouldn't think too hard about the financial situations of individuals in your ward. But I think it's part of magnifying your calling. I've heard numerous stories from people who, after being released from a calling, have an almost miraculous ability to forget the confidential matters they knew when they had the calling. There's a certain satisfaction when dealing with ward finances in thinking that as long as everything is balanced in the reports then you've done your job exactly right. But I think there can be more to it than that.

What if you received a donation slip that had $400 for the Ward Missionary account and didn't specify an indivudual missionary's name? Would you enter the donation exactly as it was written on the slip without being a little curious about where it really should go? And then consider that two men should be verifying this information before it goes into the MLS record. Did neither one think twice about it?

[allenjpl]

It strikes me that this problem might have been avoided if the men counting and verifying the donations allowed themselves to be just a little curious about what they were seeing. If you've been doing the calling for more than a few months you notice patterns. If you stopped long enough to think about who's donating and how much they're donating you'd recognize something unusual was happening before sending the check to the bank for deposit.

The great thing about noticing something unusual is that you have three years worth of MLS data at your fingertips at that very moment. You could easily look up that donor's record to confirm that, yes, this $800 donation is ten times as large as a typical donation from this person. Then give the donor a call before proceeding or, if you think you're being too nosey, let the Bishop call the donor.

Frankly, I have no idea what's going on in their lives that may have caused them to increase their donation. Maybe they got a bonus. Maybe they've changed how much they think they should be contributing. But what I do know is that before that slip is looked at by the people counting, the member had to
1. Write out a check, or count out the cash.
2. Fill out a donation slip with the amount identified.

Those are two points where the member could pause and reconsider how much they are actually donating. They are far, far better equipped to analyze their life than I am.

It's easy to think that, because you're dealing with confidential matters, you shouldn't think too hard about the financial situations of individuals in your ward. But I think it's part of magnifying your calling. I've heard numerous stories from people who, after being released from a calling, have an almost miraculous ability to forget the confidential matters they knew when they had the calling.

I don't know how others handle it. But I can tell you that I don't remember donation amounts from three days ago, much less over the course of the five years I've been a finance clerk. Are there patterns? Sure. But patterns are broken all the time.

What if you received a donation slip that had $400 for the Ward Missionary account and didn't specify an indivudual missionary's name? Would you enter the donation exactly as it was written on the slip without being a little curious about where it really should go? And then consider that two men should be verifying this information before it goes into the MLS record. Did neither one think twice about it?

If I can't determine where it goes based on some detective work (similar name, talking with the bishop, etc.), it goes into the general Ward missionary account. Generally when that happens (and it does happen), I learn about it sometime later because the family of the missionary will follow up on it, or the bishop will ask if so-and-so made a donation towards X's missionary account. Afterwards, if the same family makes a donation, I know where to credit it, whether or not it's spelled out. But if they've never made a donation to WM before, I wouldn't try to contact them to ask if they were sure they meant to donate to WM, or ask them if they really meant to put that much into WM. It's their call, and they filled out the slip.

[russellhltn]

It strikes me that this problem might have been avoided if the men counting and verifying the donations allowed themselves to be just a little curious about what they were seeing.

Speaking for myself, if everyone in the ward was of "modest" means, a $800 check might trigger some curiosity on my part. But if the ward included some high-up managers, it may not trigger anything. I'd be more interested in properly completing the task at hand and moving on.