TinMan wrote:Sorry, I don't know how to do all the fancy cutting and pasting...
That's OK I'll do it for you.
TinMan wrote:Gary_Miller wrote:
While I feel its important that Scouts have a uniform the HB is very clear on not purchasing it using budget funds to do so. However, there are many ways to purchase a uniform for under $30 so there really no excuse for not having one. After all if it was a sports team a uniform would be purchased. Its all about priorities.
Just to be clear: You are saying it is okay to ask parents to purchase a uniform for their sons,
The problem is the HB are clear on the subject of uniforms so our hands are tied. Other wise I would have no problem purchasing uniforms. It would be really easy for a ward or stake to establish a uniform exchange where scouts can trade uniforms when they out grow them. The problem is it can't be done using church funds. That's why I purchase every uniform I can at yard sales and Thrift Stores and give them away to scouts who need them.
TinMan wrote:but not okay to ask them to pay for scout camp?
I never said it was not okay to ask parents to pay for scout camp. The HB says "leaders may ask participants to pay for part or all" how parents handle this situation make no matter to me that's between them and there child. My experience however is that when a youth really wants it and is encouraged by the parents they can earn the money need. I have seen it on more than one occasion.
That being said you need to really understand. That I have a strong unshakable testimony that the brethren know what it cost to fund a scouting program. Many of them have been Scout Masters themselves during a period of time where the total cost of the program was sustained by fund risers, paid by participants families, or out of the leaders own pocket. So its my belief that there is more than enough funds to finance the whole program as long as budget allowance principles as taught in the training are followed.
TinMan wrote: I just don't see the difference.
The difference is the handbook allows for options with long term camps and it does not with uniforms.
TinMan wrote:Gary_Miller wrote:
Priesthood Leadership Conference on Scouting at Philmont is for STAKE and DISTRICT PRESIDENCY members and their families only. I feel that if the leader wants to take his family he should pay for them out of his pocket, after all the family is just there to have a good time.
I also feel that unless a leader is willing to bring back what he has learned at the conference and train others in his stake it is just a waste of money and time.
So if a Stake is willing to send the stake leaders to Philmont and pay for it out of Stake funds, then to be equitable, shouldn't they also send Stake YW leaders to some leadership training for a week as well, paid for out of Stake funds? Like the perhaps Education week at BYU in the summer?
I have no problem with Stake YW leaders being sent to a leadership training as long as it pertains to their calling, which education week would not. However, attending YW Auxlilary training that was previously held in conjunction with April General Conference would have been OK. To bad that has been discontinued.
However like I said: "unless a leader is willing to bring back what he has learned at the conference and train others in his stake it is just a waste of money and time."
TinMan wrote:Gary_Miller wrote:
it is expensive but well worth the cost to help build strong faithful future leaders of the Church, community, Nation, and World. Remember the Young Men in the church are the priesthood leaders of tomorrow.
I have never said Scouting wasn't worth the cost.
I know but others have and usually its only because they don't understand the good that can come when scouting is properly put into practice.
TinMan wrote: I just bristle that the YW budget should be the same as the YM budget.I can't afford to do that as Scouting costs at least twice what it costs to fund similar programs in Young Women's.
So do I because its not that the budgets should be the same its that the level of activities should be just as good. Due to the nature of YW activities the expenses is usually allot less.
TinMan wrote:And I bristle at the suggestion that parents can't share in some of the cost where they can afford it, be it scout camps or whatever. The investment is in their son's future, after all.
As you know sometimes we just have to accept and follow the principles and guidelines in the Hand Books. Even if we feel other wise. If you review the training in the May 1990 ensign you will see the wisdom in the Budget allowance as it pertains to funding of youth activities. Its in President Parker's talk titled Teach Them Correct Principles.
TinMan wrote:When 20% of my ward budget goes to support the program for 24 young men, leaving me 80% of the budget for the remaining 476 ward members, I get just a little irked at the suggestion of "equability."
Please understand I feel so strongly about the funding of youth activities that I would but most of my budget allowance in the Primary, YW and YM programs. Because its there where we need to keep the youths attentions while building testimonies. If you don't have quality activity programs where youth can practice what they learn on Sunday. You soon will not have them on Sunday as well.
I really don't care if the Elders Quorum, HP Group, or Relief Society has the funds to do socials as much as I care that we keep the youth involved during the most critical times of their lives.
TinMan wrote:There. I think I have said it every way I can. I will bow out of this discussion.
Don't bow out your incites and thoughts are important to the discussion.