No Unit Budget Allowance for summer camps

[jdlessley]

Stake reimburses wards for the cost of Scout Camp; participants kick in $35

Either your stake must be retaining a significant portion of each ward's quarterly allowance to do this or your stake is finding a real cheap location for summer camp. It costs $270 per Scout for summer camp this year. And that is an average for Scout camps that we have looked into within a reasonable distance of our ward. If the stake funded just our ward Scout summer camp less the $35 per Scout, that comes out to $3,055 just for Scout summer camp. That is more than 1/3 of our entire ward budget allocation for the year. If the stake withheld a percentage needed to fund that amount, our ward budget would only be able to support 80% of one ward organization's budget for the year (it its the highest organization budget for the ward). There would be nothing left for other ward organizations or other ward budget expenses.

So in the case of our ward and stake the significant part of funding just the Scout summer camp either falls to the participants or through a fundraiser or both.

[mlh78]

Stake reimburses wards for the cost of Scout Camp; participants kick in $35

Either your stake must be retaining a significant portion of each ward's quarterly allowance to do this or your stake is finding a real cheap location for summer camp.

Our camps are a little less expensive, maybe $240. Our system is a little unorthodox, but I think it works best - hope we aren't getting off topic. The stake projects the cost of youth activities (YW camp, scout camp, high adventure, youth conference, Trek, etc.) and the administrative costs of the stake (which are extremely lean). It then projects annual budget allocations for the stake as a whole for the coming year (i.e., how much budget the wards will generate based on formula). We subtract from this amount the costs of stake admin and youth camps; the remainder is allocated to the wards. In other words, we tell the wards exactly how much budget they will get for the year and guarantee it; no projections are necessary on their part and major youth activities are fully funded. We then set the sharing percentage to zero for each ward and send them their annual budget by check (usually 1/4 in January, 1/2 in April, and 1/4 in October).

This may not work for everyone, but it has been tremendously successful in our stake and has helped ensure that youth experiences are relatively uniform in qualify throughout the wards in the stake.

[Gary_Miller]

This is how we do it in our stake:

Stake pays the cost of a stake YW camp (no ward camps); participants kick in $35 for food.

Stake reimburses wards for the cost of Scout Camp; participants kick in $35

Stake gives wards $35/head for high adventure; participants kick in another $35 for food; ward budget funds cover any excess.

We have not had a single fund raiser in 15 years. We have not had a single complaint, except that every once in a while a YM leader is chagrined that they don't have enough funds to do something over-the-top extravagant for high adventure.

I honestly cannot see how stakes/wards cannot run these programs on the allotted funds.

There is no good reason for the stake to hold all this back just to turn around and give it back to the wards. They just need to give to them upfront.

[russellhltn]

There is no good reason for the stake to hold all this back just to turn around and give it back to the wards. They just need to give to them upfront.

I wouldn't see anything against it. One could make the case that the budget really is under the stake president's direction. The money goes to the sake and he's the one that makes the decisions.

Seems to me that it's one way to make sure the directions in the handbook are followed. Maybe not the best way. But I can see that after a few years of this and re-calibrating everyone's sense of "normal", it could transition to the Bishop having greater control.

[Gary_Miller]

If the stake funded just our ward Scout summer camp less the $35 per Scout, that comes out to $3,055 just for Scout summer camp. That is more than 1/3 of our entire ward budget allocation for the year. If the stake withheld a percentage needed to fund that amount, our ward budget would only be able to support 80% of one ward organization's budget for the year (it its the highest organization budget for the ward). There would be nothing left for other ward organizations or other ward budget expenses.

Last year I figured our stake held back $5000 out our our total allotment. If Our ward had received $3,000 of the money we would have been able to totally fund all our camps without any participation or fundraisers.

So in the case of our ward and stake the significant part of funding just the Scout summer camp either falls to the participants or through a fundraiser or both.

I would guess its because because your stake hold money form the ward to fund things like girls camp, Youth conference and possible an AP camp. If they just gave that money to the wards and let them decide how they are going to fund camps, I think you would find out there is more than enough.

[jdlessley]

I would guess its because because your stake hold money form the ward to fund things like girls camp, Youth conference and possible an AP camp.

Not even close. We have no girls camp, only a young women camp. This year the fee per participant was raised from $25 to $75. I have no idea how much of that covers the actual cost per participant. Youth conference is once every four years. I have no idea what the per participant cost will be for the next one. But last year it was $25. If the increase for young women camp is any indication it will be considerably higher in 2016 but adjusted for inflation. There is no AP camp. There is a Cub camp of which 100% is on the participant. There is an 11-year-old camp of which 100% is on the participant. I already mentioned our Boy Scout camp cost. The ward funds $50 of that total cost. None of that cost is covered by the stake. So the stake only funds a portion of young women camp and a portion (probably a significant portion) of the quadrennial youth conference.

If they just gave that money to the wards and let them decide how they are going to fund camps, I think you would find out there is more than enough.

This year our allocation percentage of the quarterly allowance was reduced, only slightly, yet stake funding for camps was decreased or eliminated and more placed on the shoulders of the participants.

[mlh78]

There is no good reason for the stake to hold all this back just to turn around and give it back to the wards. They just need to give to them upfront.

There are plenty of good reasons - chief among them is that the man with the keys made the decision. We have been doing this for about 15 years (or so). Each year we revisit this methodology and the bishops are completely on board. We are not just withholding money and then turning it over; we are guaranteeing that each ward's youth camps are fully funded and that youth in each ward have equal access to the same quality of camp/conference experiences to bless their lives. There are a whole host of other benefits to doing it this way; but I think the results speak for themselves: our youth have quality activities that I would not have dreamed of growing up; bishops are free to minister to youth instead of worrying about how to fund their camps; our members are able to abide by the handbook's preference for no fundraisers (which are typically a colossal waste of member's time); and each ward and the stake has run a budget surplus for the last five years that I have been a stake clerk.

I'm not saying this is the best way for everyone; but it just works well in our stake.

[Gary_Miller]

our youth have quality activities that I would not have dreamed of growing up; bishops are free to minister to youth instead of worrying about how to fund their camps;..........; and each ward and the stake has run a budget surplus for the last five years that I have been a stake clerk.

With a surplus one has to wonder about the quality of the overall youth programs not just the once a year camps along with ensuring members reimbursed for expenses. What is the activity level of weekly and monthly Scout Camp, Cub Scout Packs, Girls Achievement days, YW programs?

[mlh78]

With a surplus one has to wonder about the quality of the overall youth programs not just the once a year camps along with ensuring members reimbursed for expenses. What is the activity level of weekly and monthly Scout Camp, Cub Scout Packs, Girls Achievement days, YW programs?

They are excellent - much better than any stake I have ever lived in. I can't say for sure why the wards do not spend all their money (we have consistently preached that members must be reimbursed and are not to supplement activities with their own funds). But I think a lot of it is due to our stake and ward leaders emphasizing that youth programs are meant to allow youth to feel the Spirit and serve together; not to entertain. The former takes very little money and produces great results; the latter can take quite a bit, but produces mediocre results. Also, we run our stake extremely lean, so aside from money for stake youth camps, almost all money goes to the wards. Also, because the camps are handled by the stake, they cost much less than if handled individually by wards (e.g., economy of scale, institutional experience).

[Gary_Miller]

They are excellent - much better than any stake I have ever lived in.

Good I always worry about the quality of the programs when there are surplus funds at the EOY.

I can't say for sure why the wards do not spend all their money (we have consistently preached that members must be reimbursed and are not to supplement activities with their own funds).

That is all you can do after that it is up to the members if they ask for reimbursement or not. Although its hard to know what it really costs to run the programs when members don't ask for reimbursement.

But I think a lot of it is due to our stake and ward leaders emphasizing that youth programs are meant to allow youth to feel the Spirit and serve together; not to entertain. The former takes very little money and produces great results; the latter can take quite a bit, but produces mediocre results.

It sounds as if your leaders have been listening and doing what the brethren have been preaching for years.

Also, we run our stake extremely lean, so aside from money for stake youth camps, almost all money goes to the wards.

Obvious a stake full of leaders who have studied principles behind the LUBA and placed them into action.

Also, because the camps are handled by the stake, they cost much less than if handled individually by wards (e.g., economy of scale, institutional experience).

I can see YW camps working this way. But its hard to get around the costs of for scout camps when they are BSA camps.