Funding Good Projector for small groups

Discuss questions around local unit policies for budgeting, reconciling, etc. This forum should not contain specific financial or membership information.
Gary_Miller
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Re: Good Projector for small groups

Postby Gary_Miller » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:47 pm

TinMan wrote:It falls on my shoulders because I have young men and young women leaders and Sunday School teachers asking me how they can play the videos for their new lessons. It is a little frustrating when the Church says, "here is all this great stuff for lessons, but don't ask us how to access it."


While trying to help figure out the problem is a concern for all Bishops. The purchase of the equipment does fall within the LUBA guidelines. If you are following the guidelines you don't have any funds available to purchase this type of equipment.

For a simple check to see if what I'm saying is true just ask yourself this one question.

Did any of my Youth Primary/YM/YW have to participate in funding their long term camps this year, ether through individual participation or through a group fund riser?

TinMan
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Re: Good Projector for small groups

Postby TinMan » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:51 pm

Gary_Miller wrote:For a simple check to see if what I'm saying is true just ask yourself this one question.

Did any of my Youth Primary/YM/YW have to participate in funding their long term camps this year, ether through individual participation or through a group fund riser?


Nope. Not one. If I pass that one question, am I ok to use excess budget funds?

Gary_Miller
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Re: Good Projector for small groups

Postby Gary_Miller » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:00 pm

TinMan wrote:
Gary_Miller wrote:For a simple check to see if what I'm saying is true just ask yourself this one question.

Did any of my Youth Primary/YM/YW have to participate in funding their long term camps this year, ether through individual participation or through a group fund riser?


Nope. Not one. If I pass that one question, am I ok to use excess budget funds?


In my opinion as long as the youth programs was fully funded with monthly scout camp-outs and one long-term Scout camp for each quorum as well as a girls camp. You have a fully stocked scouting equipment shed. Your YW activities are equal to the YM activities. You held a Youth Conference on the ward or stake level. and no other unit in your stake had to fund camps through individual participation or through a group fund raiser. Then and only then would I say its OK to purchase AV equipment if you have extra budget funds.

TinMan
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Re: Good Projector for small groups

Postby TinMan » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:24 pm

Gary_Miller wrote:
TinMan wrote:
Gary_Miller wrote:For a simple check to see if what I'm saying is true just ask yourself this one question.

Did any of my Youth Primary/YM/YW have to participate in funding their long term camps this year, ether through individual participation or through a group fund riser?


Nope. Not one. If I pass that one question, am I ok to use excess budget funds?


In my opinion as long as the youth programs was fully funded with monthly scout camp-outs and one long-term Scout camp for each quorum as well as a girls camp. You have a fully stocked scouting equipment shed. Your YW activities are equal to the YM activities. You held a Youth Conference on the ward or stake level. and no other unit in your stake had to fund camps through individual participation or through a group fund raiser. Then and only then would I say its OK to purchase AV equipment if you have extra budget funds.
Now you are adding to the conditions. Because another ward chose to go to an organized camp that is really expensive, and we chose to take all the young men on a 50 mile hike where the only real expense was gas for the drivers, I don't see why I should give some of my budget allotment to them. Why do you believe that I should? Where is that in the budget guidelines?

So what is more important? Two new tents for the scouts or 4 new monitors for all to use in class? How is it you put more importance on one week of Scout Camp than on lessons they will hear every week in Young Men and Sunday School?

Gary_Miller
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Re: Good Projector for small groups

Postby Gary_Miller » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:23 pm

This is going to take us off topic a little but its important to understand why the LUBF should not be used for items that are the FMGs responsibility. I hope the moderators will forgive me.

TinMan wrote:Now you are adding to the conditions. Because another ward chose to go to an organized camp that is really expensive, and we chose to take all the young men on a 50 mile hike where the only real expense was gas for the drivers,
Good for you. However as a scouter I have some strong belief in the scouting program. One of which is the need for organized camp programs. While I have nothing against fifty mile camps I strongly believe that the organized camp is best for the Boy Scout Troop age boys, and high adventure is best for the Varsity and Venture age boys. These are my personal beliefs, based on my 30 years experience as a scouter, others are sure to disagree with me.

TinMan wrote:I don't see why I should give some of my budget allotment to them. Why do you believe that I should? Where is that in the budget guidelines?
Early guidelines stated that some wards may need more funds based on the makeup or the ward. Example wards with more youth may need more funding than wards with more older members.

TinMan wrote:So what is more important? Two new tents for the scouts or 4 new monitors for all to use in class?
Two tents for the scouts, without them you can't have a good outdoor program. You can still teach the lessons of the new program without the monitors.

TinMan wrote: How is it you put more importance on one week of Scout Camp than on lessons they will hear every week in Young Men and Sunday School?
Its not just the one week at camp its the whole scouting program. If you can't keep the boys attention with activities you won't get them to church. If you can't get them to church you won't be very successful in teaching them the principles of the gospel.

Bishops have three strikes against them when it come to keeping boys involved.

1. For the Sabbath, you are saying "I want you here, sitting in church for three hours. And I do mean sitting!"

2. In addition , you are saying " I want you here sitting and also listening." Listening to what? Speeches and lessons that deal with subjects not chosen out of the natural interests of most boys.

3. Not only that, you are asking them to sit and listen for three hours to people giving lessons and speeches that in many instance do not reflect teaching techniques that appeal to boys.
(On my Honor, A guide to Scouting in the church, Thane J. Packer, pg 5 & 6.)

The scouting program off sets these strikes. Its for these reasons I'm so against using budget funds for anything except activities. Let the FMG use the funds provided for the other things.

I suggest you read "On My Honor" it is a great book to help understand the activity arm of the Aaronic Priesthood.

TinMan
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Re: Good Projector for small groups

Postby TinMan » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:30 pm

Gary_Miller wrote: These are my personal beliefs, based on my 30 years experience as a scouter,


Oh. I see.

The new lessons and curriculum are specifically designed to keep the boys interests with interactions and materials that appeal to them. And prepare them to be better missionaries. And splawm finding ways to be able to present the lesson materials as they were designed to be given should be applauded, not condemned outright. If he has someone who can afford to donate 6 projectors to the ward so that the boys (and girls) can have a better learning environment, why turn him down?

Perhaps 30 years of scouter experience has jaded you just a bit when it comes to the Aaronic Priesthood program. Perhaps you have forgotten scouts is the "Activity Arm."

Not "The Only Arm."



I'm just sayin'...

jdlessley
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Moderator Note

Postby jdlessley » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:39 am

[Moderator Note: This thread was split from the "Good Projector for small groups" thread as it is a spinoff discussion about funding.
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?

Gary_Miller
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Re: Good Projector for small groups

Postby Gary_Miller » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:00 am

TinMan wrote:The new lessons and curriculum are specifically designed to keep the boys interests with interactions and materials that appeal to them. And prepare them to be better missionaries.
i have a perfect understanding of the new lessons and curriculum for the youth as well as the principles and purpose of the material used in the curriculum. And I believe it will have an impact on helping YM to be better missionaries. Because the new program is designed to not only teach the youth gospel but to help them become gospel teachers. This is accomplished trough learning and discussing the gospel. The media material is there to help start the discussion, but its not a show stopper in starting discussions.

TinMan wrote:And splawm finding ways to be able to present the lesson materials as they were designed to be given should be applauded, not condemned outright.
But you have to get them in the classroom before all the fancy material, methods and curriculum will have any effect. The activity program of the church to help get them in the classroom.

TinMan wrote:If he has someone who can afford to donate 6 projectors to the ward so that the boys (and girls) can have a better learning environment, why turn him down?
As long as the donation is properly handled through the church systems for donations and the donation does not put a ward in the situation of having to use LUBA down the road for maintenance and repair then I see not problem with it.

TinMan wrote:Perhaps 30 years of scouter experience has jaded you just a bit when it comes to the Aaronic Priesthood program. Perhaps you have forgotten scouts is the "Activity Arm."

Not "The Only Arm."
I don't think so. My 30 years of scouting experience is also 30 years of working with YM in the Aaronic Priesthood program. That's 30 years of study and practicing how the Aaronic Priesthood and Scouting programs interlink in accomplishing the purpose of bringing young-men to Christ, preparing them to receive the Melchizedek Priesthood, serve a successful mission, become good husbands and fathers, and future leaders of the lords church. Along the way I have met some outstanding YM from good faithful families where you had no worries about where they are heading. I have also met some outstanding YM who struggled every week of their young lives, who if it was not for the activity programs of the church would have never seen the inside of the church on Sunday. Who if they had to fund even a small portion of the activity would have had to stay away all together.

Its for these reasons I'm so against spending any LUBA on fancy electronic equipment, instead of the items needed to ensure we have outstanding activities that keep YM and YW coming back week after week after week.

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nbflint
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Re: Funding Good Projector for small groups

Postby nbflint » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:57 am

I'm an avid scouter myself; but the young men in my ward have no interest in a tent. The Boy Scouts themselves are moving toward engaging the boys through technology. If the bishop, through his keys of inspiration, determines that funding A/V equipment is the best way to use his wards budget dollars; I'm okay with that. If he decides to fight the battle with the FMG to get them to fund it; I'm okay with that too.

TinMan
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Re: Good Projector for small groups

Postby TinMan » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:45 am

Gary_Miller wrote: i have a perfect understanding of the new lessons and curriculum for the youth as well as the principles and purpose of the material used in the curriculum.
One day I hope to have a perfect understanding of the new lessons and curriculum. For now, I am only up to July in working through the materials.


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