Importance of accurate records

Discuss basic duties of stake and ward clerks, including where to begin.
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aebrown
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Re: Importance of accurate records

#21

Post by aebrown »

joecondanmic wrote:Besides, entering the record or updating it in the MLS. I found out that we don't have standard form for any ordinance.
Standard ordination recommendation forms do exist in MLS for both Aaronic and Mechizedek Priesthood ordinations. They have places for you to enter all the details you need as the process proceeds from recommendation to interview to ordination. I'd highly recommend that you consider using these forms to make sure that each step is followed properly.

In MLS, you find the forms under Reports/Forms > Ordinance Record Forms.
Gary_Miller
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Re: Importance of accurate records

#22

Post by Gary_Miller »

joecondanmic wrote:Besides, entering the record or updating it in the MLS. I found out that we don't have standard form for any ordinance. Whenever ordinance were performed, sometime you got a note from the Bishop, sometime you got a piece of paper from the Executive Secretary or Missionary. Or you're told verbally that some kind of ordinance were performed and they may not even have the full name for you. A standard form for people to fill in the details will really help us as a clerk to have all the data handy when needed. Even when we are not around and information will be there in writing.
Besides using the MLS forms you may need to insist that the Bishopric member return the form after the ordnance is complete. We don't put anything in MLS without the proper form it gets frustrating at times trying to get the form but its necessary that nothing happens without the paper work.
TinMan
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Re: Importance of accurate records

#23

Post by TinMan »

I never handle the original form. Sometimes my clerk will give me a copy if I need to get a sustaining voted in sacrament meeting. But he (or the membership clerk) attends the ordinations, baptisms, and so on, and fills out the forms, gets the membership number if the person ordaining is outside the ward and so on. He then has me sign it and he keeps it.

I always thought that was just one of the clerks duties. ?

LOL... Maybe they just don't trust me to get it back... :)
russellhltn
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Re: Importance of accurate records

#24

Post by russellhltn »

TinMan wrote:I never handle the original form. Sometimes my clerk will give me a copy if I need to get a sustaining voted in sacrament meeting. But he (or the membership clerk) attends the ordinations, baptisms, and so on, and fills out the forms, gets the membership number if the person ordaining is outside the ward and so on. He then has me sign it and he keeps it.

I always thought that was just one of the clerks duties. ?

LOL... Maybe they just don't trust me to get it back... :)
Sounds like something born from experience to me. Maybe it was from a former bishop.
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Gary_Miller
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Re: Importance of accurate records

#25

Post by Gary_Miller »

TinMan wrote:I never handle the original form.
Then what do you do when your interviewing someone. The forms is designed to be filled out mostly by the Bishop during the interview process the signed by him when the ordinance is accomplished.
TinMan wrote:Sometimes my clerk will give me a copy if I need to get a sustaining voted in sacrament meeting. But he (or the membership clerk) attends the ordinations, baptisms, and so on, and fills out the forms, gets the membership number if the person ordaining is outside the ward and so on. He then has me sign it and he keeps it.
Seems like a lot of unnecessary work on the side of the membership clerk having to attend all these ordinances just to ensure he has the paper work.

Generally a member of the Bishopric has to attend and is officiating anyway so they should be able to make sure the need signatures are on the forms and return the form back to the clerk.
TinMan wrote:I always thought that was just one of the clerks duties. ?
Funny I always thought that making sure the ordinance was accomplished properly was the Bishopric responsibilities which would include making sure they had the correct information on the paper work. The clerks duty was to make sure the information was recorded properly after the action has been taken care of.

TinMan wrote:... Maybe they just don't trust me to get it back... :)
That could be the case. Just be thankful for the good clerks you have.
TinMan
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Re: Importance of accurate records

#26

Post by TinMan »

Gary_Miller wrote: Seems like a lot of unnecessary work on the side of the membership clerk having to attend all these ordinances just to ensure he has the paper work.
...
The forms is designed to be filled out mostly by the Bishop during the interview process the signed by him when the ordinance is accomplished.
Hummm... Perhaps you are right. Here is how it works for us:

On Friday or Saturday, I get an email from my executive secretary with the interviews I have Sunday or later in the week. The Ward Clerk also gets a copy of this email.

When we meet Sunday Morning for bishopric meeting, the ward clerk will hand me forms for the ordination interviews. They are all ready filled out except for the name of the person who will do the ordinances and my signatures and date. I don't know how he gets all that information. I guess I always assumed it was automatically all there in MLS someplace. I guess, based on your comment, I am wrong.

I go ahead and interview the people and make arrangements. If I am sustaining them in Sacrament meeting that day, I will keep the form, otherwise, I toss it. I know there is a place in MLS where the clerk can save this form.

The Priesthood ordinations are all done right after the block on Sunday, so I guess I am burdening the clerk by making him stay 15 minutes after the block to witness these ordinations and get the membership numbers if an "outsider" does the ordination.

The next Sunday, he brings me the form with all the dates filled out and I sign them. I don't know if he reprints it or just fills out a copy and hands it to me.

So you are saying it is more of a hassle to attend the ordination and get the proper information first hand than it is to hassle the bishop or whatever counselor is presiding at the ordination for the paperwork?
Gary_Miller wrote:Funny I always thought that making sure the ordinance was accomplished properly was the Bishopric responsibilities which would include making sure they had the correct information on the paper work.


I believe I am fulfilling my responsibility to make sure the ordinance is accomplished properly. I am just doing it differently than you are. In 3 years, we have not had a single ding in a membership audit for not having the forms to match the ordinances. If asking a clerk to stay fifteen minutes after the block a dozen or so times a year, or missing elders quorum for a few minutes to attend an ordination in the priest quorum (where we invite all the priests to participate in the ordaining), gets that accomplished, then I would think it would be okay.

In fact, you also said this: "We don't put anything in MLS without the proper form it gets frustrating at times trying to get the form but its necessary that nothing happens without the paper work."

As for attending baptisms, yeah. That could be a burden. I will talk to them about it and see what they want to do. But one of the clerks wife is in the primary presidency, so he is there most of the time anyway.
Last edited by TinMan on Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
eblood66
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Re: Importance of accurate records

#27

Post by eblood66 »

TinMan wrote:They are all ready filled out except for the name of the person who will do the ordinances and my signatures and date. I don't know how he gets all that information. I guess I always assumed it was automatically all there in MLS someplace. I guess, based on your comment, I am wrong.
No, you're not wrong. With just a few clicks to select the correct person and a few key presses to enter the date all the information can be filled in by MLS automatically. The information for the person performing the ordinance can also be filled in quickly if that person is known (although I often leave it blank as well because I don't know for certain who will do the ordinance when I print it).

It would certainly be more work for you to fill all that out by hand during the interview.
TinMan
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Re: Importance of accurate records

#28

Post by TinMan »

Thanks. That is what I always assumed.
Gary_Miller
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Re: Importance of accurate records

#29

Post by Gary_Miller »

TinMan wrote:I guess I always assumed it was automatically all there in MLS someplace. I guess, based on your comment, I am wrong.

I go ahead and interview the people and make arrangements. If I am sustaining them in Sacrament meeting that day, I will keep the form, otherwise, I toss it. I know there is a place in MLS where the clerk can save this form.

Yes the form is printed out of MLS. In my ward the Exec Sect prints the form for the bishop. The bishop interviews the person, fills out the information that was not available to the ES at the time he printed the form and keeps the form until everything is completed. Then he places the form in the membership clerks box to record and print the certificate. The clerk never has to attend any ordination.
TinMan wrote:The Priesthood ordinations are all done right after the block on Sunday, so I guess I am burdening the clerk by making him stay 15 minutes after the block to witness these ordinations and get the membership numbers if an "outsider" does the ordination.
Its never just 15 minutes it takes at least that long just to get everyone in the room. And if there is more than one ordination or setting apart, well........
TinMan wrote:The next Sunday, he brings me the form with all the dates filled out and I sign them. I don't know if he reprints it or just fills out a copy and hands it to me.

So you are saying it is more of a hassle to attend the ordination and get the proper information first hand than it is to hassle the bishop or whatever counselor is presiding at the ordination for the paperwork?
I'm saying that if the Bishopric member keeps the paper work until the ordinance is completed and then places it in the Membership Clerks box that there is no hassle for anyone.
TinMan wrote:If asking a clerk to stay fifteen minutes after the block a dozen or so times a year,
Its never 15 minutes nor is it a dozen times a year, and you are not just asking the clerk to stay but also his family is probably waiting as well.
TinMan wrote:or missing elders quorum for a few minutes to attend an ordination in the priest quorum (where we invite all the priests to participate in the ordaining), gets that accomplished, then I would think it would be okay.
I don't have a problem with missing elders quorum I just don't see the necessity when the form can be filled out and returned by the Bishopric member.
TinMan wrote:In fact, you also said this: "We don't put anything in MLS without the proper form it gets frustrating at times trying to get the form but its necessary that nothing happens without the paper work."
I guess its not really frustrating as much as the ordinance does not get recorded and the next thing you know is one of the Bishopric members is saying we ordained so and so a couple of months ago why is it not in MLS. To which I say "Where is the form showing it was accomplished nothing get recorded without the paper work.", at which time they get a sheepish look on their face and pull the form out of there notebook.
TinMan
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Re: Importance of accurate records

#30

Post by TinMan »

Gary_Miller wrote: Its never 15 minutes nor is it a dozen times a year, and you are not just asking the clerk to stay but also his family is probably waiting as well.
I guess it is a luxury that where I live, my clerk lives three houses from the Church.
Gary_Miller wrote:I guess its not really frustrating as much as the ordinance does not get recorded and the next thing you know is one of the Bishopric members is saying we ordained so and so a couple of months ago why is it not in MLS. To which I say "Where is the form showing it was accomplished nothing get recorded without the paper work.", at which time they get a sheepish look on their face and pull the form out of there notebook.
Seems to me I have eliminated that particular problem. And in our ward, it is the opposite: My ward clerk lets me know Sunday mornings anyone who is not ordained in the system that he thinks should have been. We never go a "couple of months" without getting an ordination recorded. In fact, it is very unusual if I am not signing the certificate of ordination the week following the ordination.

To each his own, I guess.
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