Electronic Donations - Current Status

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dvan
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Electronic Bill Pay

#21

Post by dvan »

RussellHltn wrote:Then we're just wildly speculating, aren't we?
Unless someone can show that there is a transaction charge-free way to do payments in the U.S., then I think my suggestion that the lack of a epayment system in the US may be due to the way the banking system is set up is a valid possibility.
Doesn't anybody here (USA) use electronic bill payment through their bank? Zions Bank, with which the Church is likely passably familiar, has an excellent free bill payment service as do several Utah credit unions.

I know that there is no charge to the recipient for using the bill pay service when a paper check is cut because the payee gets a check for exactly the amount that is deducted from my checking account.

Most large payees have the ability to accept payments electronically without a check. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any per transaction fee that those who receive electronic payments pay.

This isn't a system with Visa or Mastercard or Paypal anywhere around. I use it every month for utility bills and payments to other payees who are not the type to accept a per transaction fee. Their alternative would be to refuse electronic payments and receive a paper check from Zions Bill Pay service to avoid any charge.
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aebrown
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#22

Post by aebrown »

dvan wrote:Doesn't anybody here (USA) use electronic bill payment through their bank?
Of course lots of people do electronic bill payment. I use it for almost all of my payments.
dvan wrote:Most large payees have the ability to accept payments electronically without a check. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any per transaction fee that those who receive electronic payments pay.
That might well be true. I wouldn't dispute that, but I don't know for certain. I doubt that transaction fees are the crux of the issue, however.
dvan wrote:This isn't a system with Visa or Mastercard or Paypal anywhere around. I use it every month for utility bills and payments to other payees who are not the type to accept a per transaction fee. Their alternative would be to refuse electronic payments and receive a paper check from Zions Bill Pay service to avoid any charge.
While this is all interesting, I don't see how it solves the issue. The fact is that each ward or branch or stake is not a totally separate banking entity like your utility company might be. The Church does a lot of special accounting to process donations and checks for each unit that is not your garden-variety banking. So there would be many changes required to have the Church receive electronic payments and credit them to each donor in each unit properly.

I imagine that this will all be a reality at some point, but since there is significant work for the Church to set up such a system, it has to be prioritized with everything else the financial systems people could be doing. Obviously it hasn't risen to the top of the priority list yet.
lajackson
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#23

Post by lajackson »

dvan wrote:Doesn't anybody here (USA) use electronic bill payment through their bank? Zions Bank, with which the Church is likely passably familiar, has an excellent free bill payment service as do several Utah credit unions.

I know that there is no charge to the recipient for using the bill pay service when a paper check is cut because the payee gets a check for exactly the amount that is deducted from my checking account.

Most large payees have the ability to accept payments electronically without a check. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any per transaction fee that those who receive electronic payments pay.
I pay all of my bills this way. You are correct that there is no charge to the recipient. If the recipient is willing to receive and accept the payments electronically, so much the better. If the do not, they get a paper check printed and mailed by the bank.

The recipient, on the other hand, has to decide how it is willing to handle each payment. Some recipients are willing and able to process them and do a wonderful job. Others lose the paper checks from the bank just as often as they lose the paper checks from an individual, because they are not willing to keep up with the receiving requirements.

Although the Church has in place a means to receive electronic payments from members in the US for some categories of contributions, the church seems to prefer that local units handle contributions. And some contributions can only be made directly to the local unit.
dvan
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#24

Post by dvan »

dvan wrote: Most large payees have the ability to accept payments electronically without a check. I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any per transaction fee that those who receive electronic payments pay.
Just to tie up this issue, I spoke to someone who has deep expertise in both banking and credit cards about the epay transaction fee issue.

The recipient pays no fee to receive an electronic payment from the bank. In the case of Zions Bank, the bank pays the electronic billing provider and is overjoyed when payments are made electronically because such payments are much less expensive to process than a paper check.

I am interested to hear from Australian and Italian contributors to this discussion that they routinely pay tithing and contributions electronically. Perhaps the smaller number of members in those countries, compared to the US, makes it easier for the Church to handle such payments with a somewhat less than fully-automated epayment infrastructure. The Italian contributor did say that their system allowed for allocation of contributions to various categories, e.g. tithing, fast offering, etc., and the Australian contributor said that the epay contributions appear automagically on the ward's monthly report, so there must be some sort of reliable infrastructure in place for those nations.

That said, I printed my paper check for tithing late yesterday. It was the only paper check I printed this month as is typical every month. I did have some tithing slips, so, instead of putting it on top of my dresser where I might forget it, I put the check in an envelope and will mail it to the bishop. If the United States Postal Service doesn't lose the envelope and the bishop remembers to take it with him on Sunday, the Church will have use of those funds then. The electronic payments I had scheduled for yesterday have already arrived.

I'm not saying that it is somehow a great burden for me to pay with a paper check, just wondering if it would not be a financial benefit to the Church to offer an easy option to pay electronically.
kabersch-p40
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#25

Post by kabersch-p40 »

There is a way to donate electronically to the Church in the US. The problem, currently, is that the donations do not get credited back to the member at the ward level. At the end of the year the member receives a donation statement form Church Headquarters that reflects the amount donated electronically. The ward will also send a statement for donations received at the ward level. The Bishop will not be able to tell from ward records if the member has donated everything electronically. I think the big hangup here is reporting the donations back to the correct ward so they are credited to the member. MLS currently tracks donations to members only locally. When a member moves, financial records do not move to the new ward with the rest of the member's records. So, the Church would have to change the way MLS handles donations in order to credit electronic donations back to a member.

My two cents worth.
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marianomarini
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#26

Post by marianomarini »

kabersch wrote:The problem, currently, is that the donations do not get credited back to the member at the ward level.
I don't understand that!
Local unit receive ANYWAY donation AND elettronic payment bills.
This way local unit know exactly in wich found I contibute (Tithins, Fasting, ecc.).
Furthermore local unit receive a mountly statement with all contributions of the unit.
Is not so in USA?
La vita è una lezione interminabile di umiltà (Anonimo).
Life is a endless lesson of humility (Anonimous).
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aebrown
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#27

Post by aebrown »

marianomarini_vi wrote:Is not so in USA?
As we have discovered in previous conversations, electronic donations are quite different in Italy from the USA. So it's not correct to assume that in the USA electronic donations are credited to the ward.
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marianomarini
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#28

Post by marianomarini »

Alan_Brown wrote:As we have discovered in previous conversations, electronic donations are quite different in Italy from the USA. So it's not correct to assume that in the USA electronic donations are credited to the ward.
I wonder why. You don't pay into local unit bank account?
La vita è una lezione interminabile di umiltà (Anonimo).
Life is a endless lesson of humility (Anonimous).
russellhltn
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#29

Post by russellhltn »

marianomarini_vi wrote:I wonder why.
We wonder as well. We don't know why. Those who know are not telling us.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
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aebrown
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#30

Post by aebrown »

marianomarini_vi wrote:I wonder why. You don't pay into local unit bank account?
The church bank accounts are different. There is no local unit bank account in for most units in the USA, at least not in the normal sense. Rather, the checks are drawn against a special account at Zions Bank. Each unit has a separate account number, but it's not an account that deposits are made to. Instead, deposits are made to special "deposit concentration" accounts at a few designated banks that the Church has made arrangements with.

So it's quite different from a simple business or personal bank account, where you make deposits to the same account that checks are written from.
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