Webcast streams

Using the Church Webcasting System, YouTube, etc. Including cameras and mixers.
lajackson
Community Moderators
Posts: 11460
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:27 pm
Location: US

#21

Post by lajackson »

I would like to try and refocus the original question and the problems that have been presented, because we would like to do exactly the same thing. If I understand correctly, the objective is:

Stake Conference originates in Building A and is broadcast to Building B (and possibly others).
A speaker in Building B will speak during the conference session to the entire stake.

As I originally pondered how this might be done, the procedure for the Bldg B speaker originally seemed to be a variant of how technically to have the Bldg B speaker speak live from the podium and feed Bldg A, which in turn would feed the rest of the stake.

Having read this thread, I have understood that the real problem is not so much a technical problem, but a timing problem.

The feed from Bldg A to Bldg B is not real time. It is going over the Internet, through servers, being buffered, etc., and is ultimately delayed by up to a minute at the beginning of the conference and possibly several minutes toward the end of the conference.

So the real problem is that when Bldg A calls on the speaker from Bldg B, it will be a measurable amount of time (up to several minutes) before the Bldg B speaker even knows it is time to begin, because the broadcast is delayed at Bldg B. And while Bldg B is catching up with the conference broadcast, Bldg A (and any others) are waiting.

The only real workaround I have seen mentioned so far in this thread is to have the Bldg B speaker in another location in that building, and then have that speaker speak in real time on cue to Bldg A, which in turn continues to feed the conference to Bldg B in a buffered/delayed fashion. This, of course, defeats the whole purpose of having the speaker speak live in the first place.

If this assessment is correct, and timing is the problem, has anyone overcome that problem? It is our feeling that if the speaker in Bldg B is not going to speak live from the podium in that building, it is just as well that the speaker travel to Bldg A where the conference is originating.

I can only think of two solutions.

1. A more real-time method of transmission of the broadcast (in both directions). This would probably be very expensive and certainly require other equipment than boxes handling Internet streams.

2. A very carefully implemented timing scheme where Bldg A sings a verse of a hymn, or does something else for the delay time, until the Bldg B speaker begins speaking on Bldg B time. This would also require the same filler time action (at Bldg B) as the broadcast switches back to originating from Bldg A.

Am I missing something, or is this the crux of the problem?
Does anyone have any other ideas for overcoming this problem so far?

We would really like to make this work, but the timing delays in using the Internet streaming broadcast solution to distribute the stake conference seem to preclude it.
lionelwalters
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:38 pm
Location: Australia
Contact:

#22

Post by lionelwalters »

lajackson wrote:Am I missing something, or is this the crux of the problem?
Does anyone have any other ideas for overcoming this problem so far?

We would really like to make this work, but the timing delays in using the Internet streaming broadcast solution to distribute the stake conference seem to preclude it.

To be honest, I just don't think that webcast is the right solution for this kind of scenario. There are FREE (or very inexpensive) software video conferencing solutions out there that provide video quality comparable to webcast in real-time and would enable a seamless transition from speakers at several buildings. Speakers at both buildings could speak from the pulpit - they'd just see an empty podium (i.e. nobody standing there) projected from the other site. There is no more equipment needed than would be used for a standard software-based webcast, and as I mentioned in my previous post, you still have the same flexibility and control for multiple video and audio sources.

I'm confused as to why this is being discarded as a non-option...
harddrive
Senior Member
Posts: 501
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:52 pm

#23

Post by harddrive »

lionelwalters wrote:To be honest, I just don't think that webcast is the right solution for this kind of scenario. There are FREE (or very inexpensive) software video conferencing solutions out there that provide video quality comparable to webcast in real-time and would enable a seamless transition from speakers at several buildings. Speakers at both buildings could speak from the pulpit - they'd just see an empty podium (i.e. nobody standing there) projected from the other site. There is no more equipment needed than would be used for a standard software-based webcast, and as I mentioned in my previous post, you still have the same flexibility and control for multiple video and audio sources.

I'm confused as to why this is being discarded as a non-option...
Lionelwalters, I don't think this is being discarded as a non-option. I understand the concept of video conferencing, but as far as I know it take a server outside of the church and I thought it was more of a "telephone" call, where you dial into it.

If you can point us to where the software is. It would also be good for me, at least, to have you describe how the computer with the cameras attached would connect to it. I just may be missing what you are driving at.

thanks for enlightening me.
lajackson
Community Moderators
Posts: 11460
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:27 pm
Location: US

#24

Post by lajackson »

lionelwalters wrote:I'm confused as to why this is being discarded as a non-option...

I am not discarding the option. I just don't understand it. So you are saying that, rather than an internet streaming solution, we ought to consider videoconferencing to do what we would like to do.

How would this work? Can the video conference be tied into the satellite system so that everyone in a particular building, including overflow rooms, can see and hear the incoming videoconference?

And I suppose there would be the phone charges for each location to dial into the videoconference.

And is there a way to put multiple cameras and sound sources (pulpit, organ, choir) into the outgoing videoconference from the main location?

Again, I do not discard the idea. I just need to know how it would actually work and be implemented.
Aczlan
Member
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Upstate, NY, USA

#25

Post by Aczlan »

harddrive wrote:Lionelwalters, I don't think this is being discarded as a non-option. I understand the concept of video conferencing, but as far as I know it take a server outside of the church and I thought it was more of a "telephone" call, where you dial into it.
If you can point us to where the software is. It would also be good for me, at least, to have you describe how the computer with the cameras attached would connect to it. I just may be missing what you are driving at.
thanks for enlightening me.
Try Google Voice and Video Chat. It reportedly does fullscreen video. What I would do would be to have a computer with composite video out running a video chat program with the screens set to "duplicate" or "mirror" each other. I would run the audio and video out from that computer into one side of a video switch and run the building audio/video into the other. Then you could switch from one to the other when you switched from a local speaker to a remote one. See my attached diagram for how I would connect the pieces.
MultihomedVideoLogicalLayout.jpg
MultihomedVideoLogicalLayout.jpg (10.02 KiB) Viewed 842 times
I would recommend having the speaker at Building B be one of the first speakers so as to reduce the wait caused by buffering.

Aaron Z
russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 34422
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

#26

Post by russellhltn »

lionelwalters wrote:There are FREE (or very inexpensive) software video conferencing solutions out there that provide video quality comparable to webcast in real-time and would enable a seamless transition from speakers at several buildings.

And that's the key - cheap, near real-time and good quality video. It will also depend on the demands it makes on the connection.

Someone will have to check them out and see if it lives up to the promise.

Given that it will need to be real-time, I'm sure it will be much more sensitive to any issues (burps) in the data stream.

I'll also point out that you'll end up with needing a lot more equipment to cover both locations as well as a larger tech crew to make it run. I'd make sure to put together a budget as to what it will take and get an OK from the Stake President before proceeding in earnest.
Have you searched the Help Center? Try doing a Google search and adding "site:churchofjesuschrist.org/help" to the search criteria.

So we can better help you, please edit your Profile to include your general location.
lionelwalters
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:38 pm
Location: Australia
Contact:

#27

Post by lionelwalters »

harddrive wrote:Lionelwalters, I don't think this is being discarded as a non-option. I understand the concept of video conferencing, but as far as I know it take a server outside of the church and I thought it was more of a "telephone" call, where you dial into it.

If you can point us to where the software is. It would also be good for me, at least, to have you describe how the computer with the cameras attached would connect to it. I just may be missing what you are driving at.

thanks for enlightening me.
My apologies for being dramatic. :-) The two software options I've described include built-in VoIP audio so it would just be a matter of running the sound through and from the PC. I'll try to put together some diagrams and perhaps a demo video. I've done this sort of thing for church and community meetings so have seen the benefits.
lajackson
Community Moderators
Posts: 11460
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:27 pm
Location: US

#28

Post by lajackson »

lionelwalters wrote:My apologies for being dramatic. :-) The two software options I've described include built-in VoIP audio so it would just be a matter of running the sound through and from the PC. I'll try to put together some diagrams and perhaps a demo video. I've done this sort of thing for church and community meetings so have seen the benefits.
I attended a leadership training meeting last November that included six remote sites. We all discussed matters freely in that environment, with no more than a one or two second delay.

I should have asked them how they did it, and if it would scale to the stake conference level.
lionelwalters
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:38 pm
Location: Australia
Contact:

#29

Post by lionelwalters »

lajackson wrote:I attended a leadership training meeting last November that included six remote sites. We all discussed matters freely in that environment, with no more than a one or two second delay.

I should have asked them how they did it, and if it would scale to the stake conference level.

I expect that would have been some kind of video conferencing solution. I'm curious, how were the cameras positioned at the main site (where the speakers were originating from) and at the other sites? In other words were you looking at the stand in all sites or at the congregation, or did it switch?
lionelwalters
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:38 pm
Location: Australia
Contact:

#30

Post by lionelwalters »

I have attached a diagram to show what the hardware setup would look like at ALL locations. The only difference in setup at the different sites would be that sites that won't have people speaking at the stand just need the congregation-facing camera. Note that the conferencing software would need to handle echo cancellation when using the chapel sound system for both input and output.
Conference Meetings.pdf
(330.45 KiB) Downloaded 190 times

As mentioned previously, there are several software options, but for the best quality for audio (including echo cancellation) and video, most flexibility and simplicity to manage, I would recommend WebEx, which is free for up to 5 locations at http://meet.webex.com. I will update the document with end-to-end software instructions, and when I get some time I'll post a video to show how a final event would work (but in harmony with church policy, in a location other than the chapel).

I hope you can see that this option requires NO additional hardware and, once I publish the software instructions you'll see that it requires only one person with minimal technical expertise (besides optional camera operators) at each location to execute. If you have any questions, please let me know.
Post Reply

Return to “Non-Interactive Webcasting”