Move the recording of Melchizedek Priesthood Advancements to the stake level

Discussions around using and interfacing with the Church MLS program.
brenthale
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Move the recording of Melchizedek Priesthood Advancements to the stake level

Postby brenthale » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:29 pm

Move the recording of Melchizedek Priesthood Advancements to the stake level.

The paper trail that is constantly getting lost is the record of Melchizedek Priesthood Advancements. It has to go through too many hands. As a result (among others) we have temple recommends that can't be activated because the individual doesn't have it recorded as receiving the Melchizedek Priesthood.

Since Melchizedek Priesthood Advancements require the Stake Presidents interview and approval (and the High Council to preside at the ordination) it seems like it would be natural for the stake clerk to record whether this has happened or not.

It would sure shorten the paper trail that currently exists.

Brent
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childsdj
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Postby childsdj » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:40 am

This has been talked about. This is more of a policy direction issue than a technical iussue. I hope to see this done in the future.

SmithGW
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Melchizedek Priesthood Advancements

Postby SmithGW » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:15 pm

This has indeed been discussed before. I feel for the clerks because when I was a ward clerk the biggest problem we had on the members' records was that Melchizedek Priesthood ordinations had not been recorded. It used to amuse me to see a new record come in that showed that some fellow in his twenties or thirties had been on a mission and had been married in the temple, but was still listed as a Priest. The ordination happened and his priesthood leaders knew it had happened because he was allowed to go on a mission and be married in the temple. However, it had just never been recorded. So then we would have to get two signed letters from two witnesses (because of course the certificate had never been created either) before we could rectify it.

I know this is discussed from time to time in some of the higher councils of the Church, but so far we who have anything to do with MLS have heard of no decision. I think we're just going to have to continue to wait on this one.

"In your patience possess ye your souls."
Luke 21:19

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aebrown
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New Elders often move out

Postby aebrown » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:12 pm

Another complication in the process of getting Melchizedek Priesthood ordinations recorded is the fact that many young men graduate from high school, get ordained an elder, and immediately go off to college. The student ward then requests the membership record, and so if the home ward wasn't really quick in recording the ordination, the record is gone, and they can't record it.

I definitely understand that this is a policy issue, but I would concur that anything we can do to streamline the process will help get these ordinances recorded before the membership records disappear from the ward.

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childsdj
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Postby childsdj » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:05 pm

I agree. I am working on getting this changed but it may take some time to implement. If you have any specific suggestions, let me know. I believe that the stake should be able to enter the ordination at the stake in MLS.

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cottrells
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Postby cottrells » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:11 pm

DJC wrote:I agree. I am working on getting this changed but it may take some time to implement. If you have any specific suggestions, let me know. I believe that the stake should be able to enter the ordination at the stake in MLS.


My suggestion is to make the updating of Melchizedek Priesthood Ordinations work along the same lines as Temple Ordinances. ward clerks can update the record, but get a prompt to say they should wait for the stake clerk to record (his responsibility as per policy). Hence for this one action stake clerks should be permitted to update a membership record for Melchizedek Priesthood Ordinations (in the same way I imagine Temple are limited to what they can update.

Also see this thread for more discussions on this issue http://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?t=70

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:37 pm

Since the signatures for the certificate of ordination is all at the stake level, it would be nice if it was possible to record the ordination as part of printing the certificate. Much like a blessing creates a record.

I think some stakes pre-print their certificates (so they can be handed to the new Elder right then), so care would need to be taken. Perhaps when the certificate is done, ask if this is a done deal. If not, put it as a "pending" that needs to be confirmed later before the record update actually takes place. This "reserve" could also help in cases where the ordination is done right as the ward ships the record out to the student ward. Being able to select the Elder from recent move-outs would help too.

supermanforever
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Postby supermanforever » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:33 am

When I was called to be a brand new clerk, I had to do a serious investigation to find one ordination. The ward and stake split several times so I had to search for copies of the ordination on several offices. Nothing was found so I was forced to find witnesses.

I now keep a spreadsheet to verify that ordinations have been entered in MLS. I also photocopy and file the ordination records. On some move outs, I have had to find the new bishop to give him the ordination.

Changes are happening soon in my stake, so I sent assistants to all the wards to personally watch the ward clerk update the ordination on some ordinations that were neglected. It worked very well. I might just keep doing this in the future immediately after every ordination.

I do agree that Melchizedek Priesthood Ordinations are the responsibility of the stake president and should be able to be updated at the stake level. It would really help shorten the paper trail.

james_francisco
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MP Ordinations - Enter at stake level?

Postby james_francisco » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:15 am

Having been one of the aforementioned assistants, it really does focus the ward clerk when an assistant stake clerk comes to sit with them as they enter these updates. A part of this situation arose because we have a number of brand new ward clerks that are growing into their positions.

That being said, it makes a lot of sense from both software engineering and process workflow POV's to have the MP ordinations updated in MLS at the time that the ordination certificate is created at the stake level.

Clerk Kent wrote:Changes are happening soon in my stake, so I sent assistants to all the wards to personally watch the ward clerk update the ordination on some ordinations that were neglected. It worked very well. I might just keep doing this in the future immediately after every ordination.

I do agree that Melchizedek Priesthood Ordinations are the responsibility of the stake president and should be able to be updated at the stake level. It would really help shorten the paper trail.

unixguy
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Postby unixguy » Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:11 am

Our stake does something similar to what James' stake does. The stake representative comes with the MP ordination form (with all signatures of course), the MP is conferred, and then the stake rep and one of the ward clerks immediately go and record the ordination. The certificate is printed (if it hasn't been already), given to the stake rep to sign, and then the certificate goes with the stake rep for the Stake Pres' signature.

The ordination form stays with the ward clerk and goes into the audit file.

I like the idea of preprinting the certificate and sending it with the brother for his interview with the Stake Pres (along with the ordination form). He could pre-sign it and give it to the stake rep, to be signed after the ordination. The only downside is not always knowing in advance what calling the stake representative will have, to put on the form.


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