Out of Unit Admins

Discussions around using and interfacing with the Church MLS program.
techgy
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Out of Unit Admins

Postby techgy » Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:26 pm

I'm trying to an "out of unit" administrator on a ward MLS system.
We currently have only one out of unit admin showing. There are several accounts of people whose account has been disabled.

When I try to add another (2nd) out of unit admin I get the message that says we already have two. Does anyone know how I determine who has admin priviledges even if their account has been disabled?

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:42 pm

Techgy wrote:I'm trying to an "out of unit" administrator on a ward MLS system.
We currently have only one out of unit admin showing. There are several accounts of people whose account has been disabled.

When I try to add another (2nd) out of unit admin I get the message that says we already have two. Does anyone know how I determine who has admin priviledges even if their account has been disabled?


The question is not admin privileges, but rather who is designated as an Out of Unit Administrator. Even if a user account is disabled, you can still click on the user name when you are in System Options > Users and see if the radio button is checked for "Member of Unit" or "Out-of-Unit Administrator." You just need to check each account until you find the Out of Unit Administrator.

If an Out of Unit Administrator is connected to transactions and you want to reuse his Out of Unit Administrator slot, you can follow the procedure outlined in the wiki under Out-of-Unit Administrators.

techgy
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Postby techgy » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:26 pm

Alan_Brown wrote:The question is not admin privileges, but rather who is designated as an Out of Unit Administrator. Even if a user account is disabled, you can still click on the user name when you are in System Options > Users and see if the radio button is checked for "Member of Unit" or "Out-of-Unit Administrator." You just need to check each account until you find the Out of Unit Administrator.

If an Out of Unit Administrator is connected to transactions and you want to reuse his Out of Unit Administrator slot, you can follow the procedure outlined in the wiki under Out-of-Unit Administrators.


Alan,

Thanks. However, checking the disabled accounts was the first thing we did. Unfortunately, none of the priviledge boxes are checked for any of the disabled accounts.

There are currently only one administrator, the branch president and he's not an out-of-unit admin.

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Postby jdlessley » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:50 pm

Techgy wrote:Alan,

Thanks. However, checking the disabled accounts was the first thing we did. Unfortunately, none of the priviledge boxes are checked for any of the disabled accounts.

There are currently only one administrator, the branch president and he's not an out-of-unit admin.
Are you sure you are looking at the "User Information" pop-up that you get to by clicking the user's "User Name" at the Users tab in System Options? There are only two options at the top of that pop-up that is available for each user. Those two options are "Member of Unit" and "Out-of-Unit Administrator". Only two users may have the Out-of-Unit Administrator selected for a unit. Some people confuse the Users Rights selection of Admin with an out-of-unit administrator.

If you have checked each user's User Information for both active and deactivated users and not found any users with the Out-of-Unit Administrator selection then contacting Clerk support may be in order.
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?

techgy
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Postby techgy » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:53 pm

jdlessley wrote:Are you sure you are looking at the "User Information" pop-up that you get to by clicking the user's "User Name" at the Users tab in System Options? There are only two options at the top of that pop-up that is available for each user. Those two options are "Member of Unit" and "Out-of-Unit Administrator". Only two users may have the Out-of-Unit Administrator selected for a unit. Some people confuse the Users Rights selection of Admin with an out-of-unit administrator.

If you have checked each user's User Information for both active and deactivated users and not found any users with the Out-of-Unit Administrator selection then contacting Clerk support may be in order.


We've been through these hoops already and no luck. I'm guessing that the user account database might be a little messed up. I'll give support a call on Monday and see what suggestions they can offer.

If I get a resolution I'll post it if it's appropriate.

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:55 pm

Techgy wrote:Unfortunately, none of the priviledge boxes are checked for any of the disabled accounts.

There are currently only one administrator, the branch president and he's not an out-of-unit admin.


It has nothing to do with the actual "Rights" check boxes (square boxes), of which the choices are Admin, Edit Membership, Finance, View Membership, and Organization. For a disabled account, these will always all be unchecked.

Rather, it is the radio buttons (circles) at the top of the dialog box labeled "Member of Unit" or "Out-of-Unit Administrator" that are critical for this issue. Were you looking at those radio buttons, or just at the Admin check box in the Rights area?

techgy
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Postby techgy » Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:02 pm

Alan_Brown wrote:It has nothing to do with the actual "Rights" check boxes (square boxes), of which the choices are Admin, Edit Membership, Finance, View Membership, and Organization. For a disabled account, these will always all be unchecked.


I'd agree with this as this is what we saw.

Rather, it is the radio buttons (circles) at the top of the dialog box labeled "Member of Unit" or "Out-of-Unit Administrator" that are critical for this issue. Were you looking at those radio buttons, or just at the Admin check box in the Rights area?


I do recall checking some of these but perhaps not all. I'll have to go back and take a closer look. Question: If I find another user account that is flagged as being "out of unit" what's the procedure?

I did check the wiki as suggested and I'm planning on giving the suggestion in there a try. But, first I want to contact Clerk Support and see what they offer.

There's a few other issues that are also giving us problems with this unit. It would appear that the Branch President's record is in his home ward in the same stake instead of being in his branch as he says it should be. However, the MLS software indicates that his record IS in the branch. Definitely a problem somewhere.

I'm wondering if all these problems may be associated with a recent ward boundary change for all wards in the stake? A bunch of members records were shuffled. None of the changes were supposed to affect the branch, but I'm not convinced.

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Postby russellhltn » Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:14 pm

Techgy wrote:It would appear that the Branch President's record is in his home ward in the same stake instead of being in his branch as he says it should be.


I believe the policy is that his record should be in his home ward and he should be entered as a Out-of-unit member in the branch.

But the boundary change does raise an interesting question - what happens if someone's login, which has been associated with a membership record, gets transfered out of the unit? I could see where that could mess up the system while making it hard to tell what's wrong. A lot of room for a bug.

One thought might be to re-associate everyone's login with their membership record and see if that fixes it.
Have you searched the Wiki?
Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

techgy
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Postby techgy » Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:47 pm

RussellHltn wrote:I believe the policy is that his record should be in his home ward and he should be entered as a Out-of-unit member in the branch.

But the boundary change does raise an interesting question - what happens if someone's login, which has been associated with a membership record, gets transfered out of the unit? I could see where that could mess up the system while making it hard to tell what's wrong. A lot of room for a bug.

One thought might be to re-associate everyone's login with their membership record and see if that fixes it.


Interesting idea. We have company coming for dinner this evening (kids) so I won't get another change to check this out until Tuesday after work. If this reassociation doesn't do the trick, then I'll contact support and see what they can offer.

As I recall when I checked the branch MLS system earlier this afternoon, the branch president was an admin but it was checked as being a member of the ward and not an out-of-unit admin.

There's a lot of holes in this issue. I'll take another peek on Tuesday and report back. Until then, if anyone has any additional ideas, let me know.

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:06 pm

Techgy wrote:As I recall when I checked the branch MLS system earlier this afternoon, the branch president was an admin but it was checked as being a member of the ward and not an out-of-unit admin.


The correct procedure for a Branch President who is not a member of your ward is for his membership records to be retained in his ward, as RusselHltn indicated. He is to be an Out of Unit Member in the branch. If this is done properly, he will appear in almost all places in MLS exactly as if he were a member, so unless you look closely, it may appear that the branch has his membership records.

Regarding the Branch President being an MLS administrator, the correct procedure is to have him as an Out of Unit Member, as I indicated above, and it is essential that his membership record number is entered on his Individual Record. If that has been done properly, then in the MLS Users list, he can be selected as "Member of Unit" -- you need not (and should not) designate him as an Out of Unit Administrator.

Given what you just reported, it may well be that he is entered correctly as an Out of Unit Member, and as a Member of Unit Administrator.


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