Member Record Missing Endowment

Discussions around using and interfacing with the Church MLS program.
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mkmurray
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Member Record Missing Endowment

Postby mkmurray » Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:52 pm

Since Clerk Support is not open today and I can't find anything in the Handbook, I'll try all of you for the time being...

We have a member without an Endowment Date. The member remembers her Endowment date well as it was only about 2 months ago. However, from my experience, the temples are exemplary at entering those ordinances into Membership Records.

This situation is different than most ordinances because there's no real legal certificate you can have them bring in or something similar. Do I need to contact Church HQ at have the temple department verify the entry of the ordinance? Is it right for me to just enter the date myself (I'm doubting it)?

Thanks in advance.

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Postby techgy » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:24 pm

Several moons ago I was serving as the Membership Clerk. This was back in the days when the membership records were entirely on card stock. It wasn't uncommon to find me on the phone with the membership department on a weekday trying to clarify a member's record.

On one occasion I accidentally discovered a member of our ward whose record didn't show an ordination to the office of Seventy. I knew him well and there was no doubt in my mind that he was a Seventy but it didn't appear on his record.

I contacted the member and told him of the problem and asked if he had a certificate that would verify his ordinance date to Seventy. He searched and said that he had nothing. The only thing remaining was to establish the fact that the ordinance had been done by talking to those people who were in attendance and obtaining a date as near as we could.

This resulted in a phone call to a stake president who, I believe, was serving as Bishop, when the ordinance was done and was present. When I asked him about a certificate he told me a horror story. It appeared that back when the ordinance was done that his ward had a membership clerk who would toss paperwork into a box. When he got too far behind in his record-keeping efforts, he tossed the box. All the records for that period of time were gone.

We ended up making a guess as to the date of the ordinance and establishing the fact that it HAD been done by talking to 2 or 3 people who were present. If all else fails perhaps the date can be established by talking to those who were present? Just a thought.

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mkmurray
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Postby mkmurray » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:29 pm

Techgy wrote:If all else fails perhaps the date can be established by talking to those who were present? Just a thought.

Yes, that is true...as a last resort, it appears that recording an ordinance by contacting a few witnesses is an acceptable practice.

Thank you for sharing the idea.

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:23 pm

mkmurray wrote:Yes, that is true...as a last resort, it appears that recording an ordinance by contacting a few witnesses is an acceptable practice.


Using witnesses to establish the validity of an ordinance is documented in the Handbook as an acceptable procedure for ordinations and baptisms. But I suspect that temple ordinances are different and that ultimately the Temple Department will have to make the correction.

lajackson
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Postby lajackson » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:18 pm

Give the temple 90 days to record the endowment. Then call the temple for the date and ask them to followup.

If you enter an endowment date in MLS, it will go to the temple department for verification anyway.

techgy
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Postby techgy » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:47 pm

lajackson wrote:Give the temple 90 days to record the endowment. Then call the temple for the date and ask them to followup.


I can't believe that it takes the temple 90 days to record it. I can take a family name to the temple and perform the ordinances. A couple of days later those ordinances appear in NFS (new family search).

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Postby russellhltn » Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:59 am

lajackson wrote:If you enter an endowment date in MLS, it will go to the temple department for verification anyway.


That's the way I remember it working.
Have you searched the Wiki?
Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

lajackson
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Postby lajackson » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:46 am

Techgy wrote:I can't believe that it takes the temple 90 days to record it.


You are correct. It should not take that long. It normally takes about a week around here.

In any event, 90 days was the old rule. The new rule is 45 days. The instruction in MLS now says that if you have not received an updated record within 45 days after the temple ordinance, you can submit the change.

The MLS screen will remind you that all ordinance information is sent to the Temple Department for verification.

If it has been 45 days, I would record the endowment in MLS and send it. Because the ordinance will be verified, you do not need to go through the "two witnesses" procedure. You will want to make sure you send in the correct date, working with the member or those who attended with the member and remember the date, or both.

Temples used to stamp the temple recommend with the date of the endowment, but I do not believe they do that anymore. If the member has a recommend with the date stamped on it, and the members recognizes that date as the correct one, I would submit that date through MLS.

Again, if it has been 45 days, gather up the best date you have and submit it through MLS.

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mkmurray
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Postby mkmurray » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:29 am

lajackson wrote:The MLS screen will remind you that all ordinance information is sent to the Temple Department for verification.

Thank you for the info; I will submit the date through MLS looking for this verification screen you have named.

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Member Record Missing Endowment

Postby SmithGW » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:25 pm

lajackson said-
Again, if it has been 45 days, gather up the best date you have and submit it through MLS.

It is true that the MLS help says after 45 days you can submit the temple ordinance through MLS. Be aware, though, that those submissions are checked by the Temple Department before they are accepted. You're not going to be able to enter a false temple ordinance date.


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