can children be listed in two households?

Discussions around using and interfacing with the Church MLS program.
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sasgrw
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can children be listed in two households?

Postby sasgrw » Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:02 am

Both divorced parents are still in the ward (amicable relationship). One is remarried. They have 50% custody of the kids and live down the street from each other so the kids can easily visit both homes. The children are currently listed under the father. The mother recently downloaded the LDS Tools app and was disappointed that her kids aren't listed under her name. It's a valid concern. Is there a way to list the kids under both parents? All the kids are baptized and have church records. I think if I go to the mother's record and add family members, won't it remove them from the father's record? (I haven't tried it yet. I guess I was thinking it was kind of like home teaching - when you move a family to a new home teacher, it's removed from the previous home teacher's list.)

If that doesn't work, I don't think I can add the children as if they don't have church records. Well, actually I could do that, but the children won't show up on the ward directory or in LDS Tools if the apps think they're non-members.

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aebrown
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Re: can children be listed in two households?

Postby aebrown » Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:45 am

There are two ways that a child can be connected to a parent. The first is simply listing the children, which has nothing to do with membership in the ward, or even membership in the Church. The children of a person appear on that individual's membership record. My guess is that the children you are talking about are listed on both the father's and the mother's individual membership records as children, but it's probably good to check and make sure. That is the critical linkage for genealogical purposes.

The second way is being a member of a household. A household describes the people (generally related, but not necessarily so) who live at a particular location and are closely connected. A person can be a member of only one household within a ward. So yes, you're right that if you add the children to the mother's household, they will be removed from the father's household.

I can certainly understand why the mother might very well want to see her children listed in her household, but that is not currently possible with the way "household" is defined for Church records.

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sasgrw
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Re: can children be listed in two households?

Postby sasgrw » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:40 am

Do both ways show the children in the online ward directory? I've added non-member children (over 8 years old) to parents before and they don't show up. If an older child gets baptized, after the mission office creates their record, then I *do* see the child in the directory.

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aebrown
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Re: can children be listed in two households?

Postby aebrown » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:06 am

sasgrw wrote:Do both ways show the children in the online ward directory? I've added non-member children (over 8 years old) to parents before and they don't show up. If an older child gets baptized, after the mission office creates their record, then I *do* see the child in the directory.

The online ward directory only shows households (the same is true for the LDS Tools mobile app). For example, I have children who have grown up and left our household to live in different wards. They do not have records in our ward, and so could not possibly appear in our household on LDS.org or the LDS Tools mobile app. But if I examine my membership record or IOS, I do see all my children listed, including those who are not in my ward and thus not in my household.

Nonmember records you create in MLS are local to MLS and will never appear in the LDS.org Directory or any mobile app.

The list of children of a member will appear only on the IOS and membership record, and will also never appear in the LDS.org Directory or any mobile app.

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sasgrw
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Re: can children be listed in two households?

Postby sasgrw » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:11 am

Understood. So to rephrase my original question, is there a way for two separate members to see their household children listed on the website or the app? It sounds like no.

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aebrown
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Re: can children be listed in two households?

Postby aebrown » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:06 am

sasgrw wrote:Understood. So to rephrase my original question, is there a way for two separate members to see their household children listed on the website or the app? It sounds like no.

Correct.

Given the definition of "household", a person can only belong to one household in the ward, so it really doesn't make sense to refer to two separate members both seeing "their" household children. You (with oversight from your bishop) simply have to decide which household the children belong in and put them there. The other household cannot possibly include those children at the same time.

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sasgrw
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Re: can children be listed in two households?

Postby sasgrw » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:18 am

aebrown wrote:a person can only belong to one household in the ward, so it really doesn't make sense to refer to two separate members both seeing "their" household children.


That was sort of my point. In this case, it *does* make sense to refer to two households since the parents each have 50% custody. The children really do live in two households, just not at the same time. They spend an equal amount of time at each home.

Because of the limitation of the software, it sounds like I (or the bishop) will have to talk to each spouse to see whose household they should be listed under. I don't want to swap the records back and forth each time they go to the others' house :-)

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aebrown
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Re: can children be listed in two households?

Postby aebrown » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:07 am

sasgrw wrote:In this case, it *does* make sense to refer to two households since the parents each have 50% custody. The children really do live in two households, just not at the same time.

I certainly agree if you are using the term "household" in its common usage. I was referring to the precise technical term "household" as defined by MLS.


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