Custody of Children

Discussions around using and interfacing with the Church MLS program.
lnorr-p40
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Custody of Children

Postby lnorr-p40 » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:08 pm

We have a single sister in our ward who has legal custody of her sister’s three children.
The children’s parents were taken from them in a terrible tragedy. So this single sister is raising them herself. Sound like a movie plot?
The children are attending our ward. The ages are 5, 9, and 14.
MLS will not let me add them as children of this Sister. I have added them as other family members, but they do not show up on rolls, or on her IOS.
The children are working with the missionaries and taking the lessons. However this sister feels bad that the children do not show up in the data base anywhere.
Does any one know what to do in a case like this?

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:54 pm

When you say "MLS will not let me add them as children of this Sister", how are you trying to add them? There are two ways. The first is to put them as literal children on this sister's records. Since you say she has "custody" rather then "adopted", I don't think that's appropriate. And it wouldn't accomplish what you want anyway.

Check under MLS under what conditions you can create a "child of record". Once you create a record for these children, you should have no trouble grouping them with this Single Sister (assuming you've made this sister a head of house and isn't grouped as a child in another household.) That should solve most of the problems as far as having them show up. There may still be a remaining issue since two of them are over the age of 8 and have not been baptized. That may still cause them to not show up in places.
Have you searched the Wiki?
Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

greggo
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Postby greggo » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:01 am

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I'm understanding correctly, you created nonmember records for the children.

In this case, the children can be added to a family (as other), but they will not show up in rolls, etc. because you can't include birth dates for nonmember records. They will; however, show up in a directory of members list (and may be others) within the family they are assigned.

For the 5 year old, a member record can be created. But by policy this can only be done if either of the birth parents or adoptive parents are members and both give their permission. In the case of both parents being members, only verbal permission is needed. In the case of only one parent being a member, written permission must be given by the nonmember parent.

For children age 8 and older, for records to be created, they must be baptized and confirmed.

There is a method to work around this problem. Instead of creating nonmember records, you can create out of unit member records. In this way, birth dates can be defined, and they show up on all appropriate lists as if they were children of record. They still will not be included in ward statistics; however, as they are not considered members of the ward.

In regards to them being added as the sister's children, as already addressed, this may only be done if she has legally adopted the children (and provided documents that show this).

Hope this helps.

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:41 am

Greggo wrote:There is a method to work around this problem. Instead of creating nonmember records, you can create out of unit member records. In this way, birth dates can be defined, and they show up on all appropriate lists as if they were children of record. They still will not be included in ward statistics; however, as they are not considered members of the ward.


While it may work, I have a fundamental problem with numbering a non-member as a member.
Have you searched the Wiki?

Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

greggo
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Postby greggo » Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:57 am

RussellHltn wrote:While it may work, I have a fundamental problem with numbering a non-member as a member.


I agree. I wish there was a way to have those with nonmember records show up on lists/rolls if so desired.

I'm using the out of unit member method currently for two youth in our ward whose family/leaders asked to have them show up on the rolls. In both these cases, they are not baptized only because their non-member fathers will not allow it.

For these records, to easily recognize in the rolls that they are not members, I added an asterisk (*) to their preferred names (I wish MLS did something similar for members of record over age 9).

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:34 am

Greggo wrote:I wish there was a way to have those with nonmember records show up on lists/rolls if so desired.


There seems to be an assumption on this thread that nonmembers cannot be placed on class rolls. This is not true. Although nonmembers have no birthdate in MLS, and thus will not automatically be put in classes, you can manually add nonmembers to classes, and then they will show up on class rolls and lists.

Of course as the new year rolls around, you again have to manually move them from class to class. It's a bit of extra work, but it is the only way to handle nonmembers without lying and saying they are out of unit members, which I cannot possibly recommend.

greggo
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Postby greggo » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:27 am

Alan_Brown wrote:Although nonmembers have no birthdate in MLS, and thus will not automatically be put in classes, you can manually add nonmembers to classes, and then they will show up on class rolls and lists..


Are you sure this is the case with YM and YW lists?
I tried before and was only able to do this for SS classes.

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:53 am

Greggo wrote:Are you sure this is the case with YM and YW lists?
I tried before and was only able to do this for SS classes.


You can add nonmembers to Primary, Relief Society, Sunday School, Elders, and High Priests.

But you're right, you can't add them to YM or YW. Why that is the case is beyond me. Whatever the reasons for adding them to those other 5 organizations (and there are several good reasons) would seem to apply to YM and YW as well.

Does anyone have any idea why YM/YW are excluded for nonmembers? Is this an MLS bug or some sort of policy?

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:34 am

Alan_Brown wrote:Does anyone have any idea why YM/YW are excluded for nonmembers? Is this an MLS bug or some sort of policy?


I'm leaning toward MLS bug. A non-member doesn't have an organizations section when you go into their record, so you can't even put them into an adult class that way.

But go into the organization and try to add an individual. Take a look at the list that comes up. I can put a 5 yo into Elders. But I can't find a 16 yo to put in Priests. (This is using the test database) I'm not sure what restrictions are going on for youth.

Edit: Duh, It's probably because the 16 yo is already in Priests. However, no adults appear in the list. So I'm thinking it's a age restriction on the youth, and a non-member not having a birth date isn't making the cut.

I can make a non-member a youth leader. :rolleyes:
Have you searched the Wiki?

Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

jbh001
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Postby jbh001 » Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:55 am

Work-around:
Create your non-member record. Go to the Elders Quorum or Relief Society organization (as gender appropriate), click the Add Members link, and add them to that organization. Close that organization's screen/tab, then reopen that organization so that the list of members in it will refresh. Locate your non-member and click the Remove link that corresponds to them. In the pop-up window you can then select which Destination organization to move them to, including YM or (YW as appropriate).


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