Membership Audit Glitch

Discussions around using and interfacing with the Church MLS program.
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ffrsqpilot
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Membership Audit Glitch

Postby ffrsqpilot » Mon May 26, 2008 8:50 pm

Yesterday I was with one of our branches doing the membership audit. We came to the Error/Warnings section and had to scratch our heads for awhile about what to do with one of the Warnings shown. The member in question has the following Problem Description "The endowment date should not be earlier than the Melchizedek Priesthood conferral date". The individual was made an Elder, then a Seventy, and finally a High Priest. However the only dates that show up on his membership record are the Seventy and High Priest ordination dates. His Elder ordination date is missing so the computer (MLS) recognizes only the Seventy date which is after his endowment date. We completed the audit and I said I would call CHQ and ask them how to delete the warning (or just override it by hitting ignore). Just wondering if this is a glitch in the program or if there is a way to get the computer to recognize there is not a problem?

Anyone?

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Postby mkmurray » Mon May 26, 2008 9:14 pm

Pilotfly wrote:Yesterday I was with one of our branches doing the membership audit. We came to the Error/Warnings section and had to scratch our heads for awhile about what to do with one of the Warnings shown. The member in question has the following Problem Description "The endowment date should not be earlier than the Melchizedek Priesthood conferral date". The individual was made an Elder, then a Seventy, and finally a High Priest. However the only dates that show up on his membership record are the Seventy and High Priest ordination dates. His Elder ordination date is missing so the computer (MLS) recognizes only the Seventy date which is after his endowment date. We completed the audit and I said I would call CHQ and ask them how to delete the warning (or just override it by hitting ignore). Just wondering if this is a glitch in the program or if there is a way to get the computer to recognize there is not a problem?

Anyone?

I wonder if MLS saves (or perhaps it's only a display issue) the last two Melchizedek Priesthood ordinations, under the assumption that they are Elder and then High Priest in most cases.

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Tue May 27, 2008 5:44 am

Pilotfly wrote:Yesterday I was with one of our branches doing the membership audit. We came to the Error/Warnings section and had to scratch our heads for awhile about what to do with one of the Warnings shown. The member in question has the following Problem Description "The endowment date should not be earlier than the Melchizedek Priesthood conferral date". The individual was made an Elder, then a Seventy, and finally a High Priest. However the only dates that show up on his membership record are the Seventy and High Priest ordination dates. His Elder ordination date is missing so the computer (MLS) recognizes only the Seventy date which is after his endowment date. We completed the audit and I said I would call CHQ and ask them how to delete the warning (or just override it by hitting ignore). Just wondering if this is a glitch in the program or if there is a way to get the computer to recognize there is not a problem?

Anyone?


This doesn't sound like a problem with MLS at all. MLS is quite properly pointing out that there is a potential problem, based on the incomplete ordinance information on that individual's membership record. Since the Elder ordination date is missing, there is no way for MLS to determine if the endowment occurred before or after the Melchizedek Priesthood was conferred, so it is appropriate to point this out. If it is possible to supply the ordination information using proper sources, that should remedy the situation.

If you don't fix this, then every ward that brother moves to will run into the same inconsistency and have to deal with it as you have.

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Postby jbh001 » Tue May 27, 2008 10:24 am

Sounds to me like the first attempted solution should be to collect the relevant elder ordination information and add it to this person's record using the Add Ordination link.

If MLS won't let you add the information, then I would navigate (from the menu bar) to Membership > Records > Special Requests > select the member's record > then supply the necessary ordination information and briefly explain what needs to be done with it.

For example: "This member was ordained an elder on 01 Jan 1900 by John Doe, whose priesthood office was High Priest. Please add this ordination information to his record."

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ffrsqpilot
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Postby ffrsqpilot » Tue May 27, 2008 12:33 pm

Is it a MLS problem? - yes and no!

Apparently MLS only allows two MP ordinations on the membership records which are usually Elder and High Priest. I am guessing that when MLS was designed it did not take into consideration that there were a lot of older members who were ordained Seventies sometime during their life. MLS thus only will list (recognize) the Seventy and High Priest ordinatiion dates (the latest dates) and drops the Elder ordination date.

It is not a question of whether there is an inappropriate endowment but rather the date inconsistency with MLS dropping the first ordination. I called CHQ and explained the problem and the answer is to go back to the individual member and see if they have a certificate or can remember the year or ward in which the ordination took place. Just so happens this member is 93 and in somewhat poor health so we'll see if he can find the data. If he can then the direction given me this morning was to call CHQ and they will change the record to show his Elder ordination date which will then get rid of the "Warning" notation. If he can only come up with the year or possibly the ward then CHQ can go back into the archives and research the date.

In anycase, it appears that this is an issue that has to have some action taken by the membership department in Salt Lake as I don't think I can delete the Seventy ordination and insert the Elder ordination on my end (or the branch clerks part in this case).

Surprisingly I was talking with my Brother in law who is the branch clerk in another branch in our stake and he has the same issue. He was ordained a Seventy and later a High Priest. His record doesn't show his Elder ordination date either. When I go back to the stake building this evening I'll look his branch membership validation report and see if he crops up as a warning also.

Always something new and interesting in our callings!

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Postby Mikerowaved » Tue May 27, 2008 1:33 pm

Pilotfly wrote:Is it a MLS problem? - yes and no!

Apparently MLS only allows two MP ordinations on the membership records which are usually Elder and High Priest. I am guessing that when MLS was designed it did not take into consideration that there were a lot of older members who were ordained Seventies sometime during their life. MLS thus only will list (recognize) the Seventy and High Priest ordinatiion dates (the latest dates) and drops the Elder ordination date.

It is not a question of whether there is an inappropriate endowment but rather the date inconsistency with MLS dropping the first ordination...

I just checked our unit's records and see several of our "more mature" High Priests with their Elder and Seventy ordinations recorded along with their HP ordination, so I think your assumption that MLS can only handle so many ordinations then somehow drops one off is in error. That would be awfully short sighted of them if that were the case.

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Postby russellhltn » Tue May 27, 2008 1:53 pm

I don't know if it's still the case, but I think ordination to Bishop is also a specific ordination (beyond being a HP). At least in the old paper records, it was a separate line in the ordinance block.

If I'm correct, then a Bishop, or former Bishop, could have 4 ordinations on their record.

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Postby jbh001 » Tue May 27, 2008 5:02 pm

Pilotfly wrote:Apparently MLS only allows two MP ordinations on the membership records which are usually Elder and High Priest. I am guessing that when MLS was designed it did not take into consideration that there were a lot of older members who were ordained Seventies sometime during their life. MLS thus only will list (recognize) the Seventy and High Priest ordinatiion dates (the latest dates) and drops the Elder ordination date.

No, MLS can definitely handle more than two ordinations.
2008.05.Elder.png
2008.05.Elder.png (5.04 KiB) Viewed 235 times


RussellHltn wrote:I don't know if it's still the case, but I think ordination to Bishop is also a specific ordination (beyond being a HP). At least in the old paper records, it was a separate line in the ordinance block.

If I'm correct, then a Bishop, or former Bishop, could have 4 ordinations on their record.
I checked some former bishops, and their records in MLS do not indicate this ordination. There also doesn't seem to be a way in MLS to record or display this. This also would present a problem in that if someone serves as bishop more than once, how would this be recorded and displayed?
2008.05.Seventy.jpg
2008.05.Seventy.jpg (23.21 KiB) Viewed 234 times

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ffrsqpilot
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Postby ffrsqpilot » Tue May 27, 2008 5:24 pm

Well then, if I read all the above right then all we need to do is see if the elderly brother has some documentation that we can enter for his Elder ordination. If not, then with a minimum of information (year, ward or such) the techs at CHQ said they could go into the archives and find his ordination date. Hopefully this will solve the problem we can get all three dates in and the error to go away.

Thanks for all the insight and help

Jim

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MP conferred: [date]

Postby jfackerson » Tue May 27, 2008 7:52 pm

Melchizedek Priesthood conferred date should not change, no matter what other offices
are received after Elder. I've been at this since 1993 and don't remember ever seeing
an option to change MP conferred date.

Once it's recorded, then it should have remained unchanged. :confused:


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