Record number for a deceased non-member?

Discussions around using and interfacing with the Church MLS program.
geek
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Record number for a deceased non-member?

Postby geek » Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:10 pm

A brother in our ward recently received a copy of his Individual Ordinance Summary, preparatory to his setting up lds.org access.

He pointed out that on his record, the section showing his parents shows his mother with a record number; his father does not have a record number. His mother is deceased, never joined the Church, and in fact was downright hostile when he joined the Church.

He seems to be wanting to know how (a) the record number was assigned and (b) how to remove it (if that even matters).

Any ideas? Again, she was never a member, never belonged to a ward, never darkened the doorway to a meetinghouse, etc....
Just a random membership clerk in Zion

rmrichesjr
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Postby rmrichesjr » Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:22 pm

I don't know any official procedure or practice rules, but I am acquainted with someone whose record shows record numbers for both (living) parents, even though neither parent has ever been a member of the Church. I would guess those numbers are just place-holders. I would have thought there would likely be at least an internal record number for any person whose name is listed in someone else's record. If my parents were non-members with record numbers showing up, I wouldn't worry about it unless somebody was seriously unhappy about it.

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Mikerowaved
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Postby Mikerowaved » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:03 pm

There is a pretty good explanation found in this thread...

http://tech.lds.org/forum/showthread.php?p=8821

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lajackson
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Postby lajackson » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:53 pm

In MLS, every name gets a number. Members get a membership number, and other names/records get a record number.

SL can tell the difference. If a clerk tries to request a record using the record number of someone who is not a member, the will get a note back saying the request does not include a valid membership record number.

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:46 pm

Somewhere I seem to remember hearing that the "fake" record numbers contained the unit number in them. Does that seem to be the case here?

SmithGW
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Record number for a deceased nonmember

Postby SmithGW » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:24 am

The numbers associated with nonmember parents are called "linked records" at HQ. They are not membership record numbers, but only represent a link to a member of the Church. As the other brother said, HQ can tell the difference. If you have nonmember parents with what looks like membership record numbers by their names, don't worry about it. No information of theirs will ever be shared with anyone.

jbh001
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Postby jbh001 » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:01 am

geek wrote:A brother in our ward recently received a copy of his Individual Ordinance Summary, preparatory to his setting up lds.org access.

He pointed out that on his record, the section showing his parents shows his mother with a record number;
Then you did not give him an IOS, you gave him Membership Record. IOS's suppress all record numbers except for the member to whom it pertains.

If you navigate (from the menu bar) to Membership > Individual Record, pull up a record and then click the Print button at the bottom left-hand corner of that window, MLS will print a membership record not an IOS. You can verify this by clicking the Preview button instead and notice the words For Bishop and Membership Clerk Use Only printed across the top. The only way to print an IOS (from the menu bar) is to navigate to Membership > Print Records > Individual's IOS (or Household's IOS). There was an MLS message send 11 May 2007 distinguishing the difference between an IOS and a membership record.

Additionally, CHQ will assign a record number anytime a name AND birth date are recorded. The record number may be an actual membership record number, or simply and administrative record number (i.e. a placeholder to show family linkages).

This is why, on the membership record, the person's mother had an administrative number assigned: because at some point the mother's birth date had also been recorded. Since the birth date for the father had never been recorded on MLS, no administrative record number was created for him.

If you want to see for yourself, you can try requesting the mother's record using the name, birth date, and record number listed on the person's membership record. You will then get a boilerplate response back via MLS Message like this:
ATTENTION CLERK: We cannot find a membership record for XXXXXXX. You have requested record number, ###-####-####, but this is not a membership record. It is an administrative record that is used to link nonmember parents, spouses, or childrens names and birth dates to the member. If you have information that this individual has been baptized and confirmed, please provide us with the baptism and confirmation dates so that a membership record can be created. Send this information with the name and birth date exactly as it appears on this administrative record so that a duplicate record is not created.

rmrichesjr
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Postby rmrichesjr » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:57 pm

jbh001 wrote:Then you did not give him an IOS, you gave him Membership Record. IOS's suppress all record numbers except for the member to whom it pertains.

...


If the current MLS supresses other record numbers on an Individual Ordinance Summary, it apparently did not always do so. As I type this, I am looking at a piece of paper with the name of the Church on the first line, "Individual Ordinance Summary" on the second line, and record numbers showing for two non-LDS parents of a convert. This report is dated in August of 2004.

jbh001
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Postby jbh001 » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:46 am

I went and checked my IOS that was printed in 1998 and it too is full of the record numbers of various family members. My current (2008) IOS has all these record numbers removed, except for my own and (curiously enough) those that ordained me to the priesthood. The record numbers for my parents, wife, and children are no longer printed on my current (2008) IOS.

Obviously at some point a decision was made that (most) record numbers are sensitive information and were removed from the IOS. Perhaps this was phased in as record numbers became required for accessing church websites, and as temple recommends began being sold on ebay.

The current (2008) IOS's have enough information (i.e. name and birth date) to request family records into a ward, but not enough information about others to do much of anything else, at least not without a lot of extra effort.

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Postby lajackson » Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:19 pm

RussellHltn wrote:Somewhere I seem to remember hearing that the "fake" record numbers contained the unit number in them. Does that seem to be the case here?


The number with the unit number in it is a donor record that is created on the financial side of MLS before the donor is linked to an actual membership record. Those temporary donor numbers begin with the unit number, and then are replaced as the donor records are linked to actual membership records.


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