Out-of-Unit Records must "match" IOS?

Discussions around using and interfacing with the Church MLS program.
cognifloyd
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Out-of-Unit Records must "match" IOS?

Postby cognifloyd » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:48 pm

Hello,

Local Unit Support gave me a virtual 'blank stare' when I asked about this, so maybe somebody here can point me to someone that knows the answer.

I'm in a YSA Stake, so nearly all of our leadership positions are filled with out of unit members. The handbook explains that all the members of our stake presidency, bishoprics, high councilors, etc, should generally leave their records in their home wards. Then, an out-of-unit record is created and attached to the appropriate calling (like high councilor, or 1st counselor in a Bishopric, etc).

However, when it comes to getting permissions for accessing the online tools, the out-of-unit record must "match" the information on the member's IOS.

My question, what must match? Which fields on the out-of-unit record are checked against the fields of their membership records?

The "word" is that "everything" must match, which is a nice standard cop-out answer. There are several leaders who have access to the online tools, and who have children listed on their IOS, but their children were not included in their out-of-unit record. So, it seems, that only certain fields are checked. Which fields?

Baptism, and ordinance dates? Does it check who performed the ordinances? Does it check the MRN of the person who performed the ordinances? Does the address count? What about the phone number? The email address? Does it check contact info on just the individual record, or the household information as well? Does it check the "preferred name"? Does it check the endowment or sealing dates? What about the temple where ordinances were performed - does it check those?

I'm pretty sure it checks the MRN, Name, and something to do with the priesthood ordination. Beyond that, what's required?

There's a *lot* of information on an IOS. It's hard to believe that they would take the processing time to compare every single field. Multiply that across 57 positions, and there's a *lot* of information I have to double check to ensure all of the leaders receive the appropriate permissions online.

The first response I expect to get is: "the devs don't hang out in this forum". Fine. Would someone point me to who might know? Private Messages are fine.

Thanks is such a trite word, it does not express the extent of the gratitude I have for whoever helps me figure this out. I prefer the Portuguese word: Obrigado. It is more than just Thanks, or Thank You, it is a heart felt expression of deep gratitude, similar in magnitude to the English word "obligated". So, Obrigado! Obrigado for your help in helping me to do my calling and get this figured out for all the priesthood leaders I'm supposed to serve and train in my YSA stake.

Background: What I'll do with this information
Once I get this information, I'll finish putting together the training documents for out-of-unit records in a YSA Unit. I'll share those with the LDSTech community. I'll have something to give the leaders explaining what an out-of-unit record is, and why they still have to go to their home ward to change information on their church record, etc. I'll have something for the Ward and Stake clerks explaining the ins and outs of adding leaders so that they get access to the tools they need on the first try. I'll have another document for our stake president (or the members) to share with the Bishoprics of home wards/stakes explaining that they still give temple recommend interviews to those serving in the YSA stake, and their record really is in the home ward, so we have to have the home ward bishoprics approve their directory photos (and an explanation of what the directory is, because so many home ward Bishoprics aren't using it yet, but we are, and we depend on their help). So, you see, there's a lot of training I'm trying to figure out how to provide, and giving a standard "everything on IOS" response has not been effective. I need to be more precise, and more all-encompassing, with my instructions.

PS I put this in the MLS forum, because I figured there's more of a chance of finding someone who knows where to send me. If no one responds, I guess this should be in one of the LDS.org related forums.

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:30 pm

cognifloyd wrote:I'm pretty sure it checks the MRN, Name, and something to do with the priesthood ordination. Beyond that, what's required?


Seems like you're in a good position to check this, by comparing what out-of-unit records work and which do not.

I'd concentrate on MRN, Legal name (not preferred name), Birth date, and Confirmation date as I've seen those used for confirmation. The most recent priesthood office/ordination date, baptism date and perhaps the address/contact information would be my next guess.
Have you searched the Wiki?
Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

jonesrk
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Postby jonesrk » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:28 pm

cognifloyd wrote:I'm pretty sure it checks the MRN, Name, and something to do with the priesthood ordination. Beyond that, what's required?

I know for the position to get into CDOL correctly you have to have the MRN.

MLS requires the correct priesthood for some positions (like bishopric), and the name will be how it will display throughout MLS.

At the stake level for the leaders on the Leader and Unit Change Request (bishops, stake presidency) there is contact info required too.
Ryan Jones
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Stake Technology Specialist - Software / Stake Assistant Clerk
Former Ward Clerk

cognifloyd
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OK

Postby cognifloyd » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:25 pm

Thanks for the thoughts. To test that, I guess I'd have to get an out of unit leader's ldsaccount and try various combinations until I figure out the minimum number of fields that have to match IOS. This will take quite a while because after every change, it takes a day or so for lds.org tools to update the permissions.

Any ideas on how to test this faster?

Obrigado

eblood66
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Postby eblood66 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:01 pm

cognifloyd wrote:Thanks for the thoughts. To test that, I guess I'd have to get an out of unit leader's ldsaccount and try various combinations until I figure out the minimum number of fields that have to match IOS. This will take quite a while because after every change, it takes a day or so for lds.org tools to update the permissions.

Any ideas on how to test this faster?

Obrigado


I'm not sure where you were told that the out-of-unit records had to match the IOS for multiple fields but it doesn't match my understanding of the system. From what I've gathered from following many discussions and from some community development work, permissions are based entirely on the information in CDOL. If someone is in CDOL with the correct MRN and correct standard position then they should have permissions. As JonesRK (our resident CDOL developer and expert) said, MLS may require that priesthood ordinances be recorded before it will let you put someone in certain positions, but once they are entered in MLS in the correct position only the MRN and position number actually go to CDOL.

If JonesRK is agreeable, I would suggest you take someone who does not have rights. First check CDOL to make sure they show up in the correct standard position. Then have them Sign into lds.org and then go to http://lds.org/header. PM the results to JonesRK and see if he can determine why the person doesn't have the rights they should. Hopefully, he will pipe in here and say whether he has time to take a look.

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:20 pm

cognifloyd wrote:I guess I'd have to get an out of unit leader's ldsaccount and try various combinations until I figure out the minimum number of fields that have to match IOS.


I'm not sure why you say you have to have their account. I'd simply look at all the leaders records in MLS and determine what the non-functional leaders have in common. Then enter the fields suggested in MLS and see if it fixes it.
Have you searched the Wiki?

Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

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Postby jonesrk » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:16 am

RussellHltn wrote:I'm not sure why you say you have to have their account. I'd simply look at all the leaders records in MLS and determine what the non-functional leaders have in common. Then enter the fields suggested in MLS and see if it fixes it.

For the non-functional leaders, I would make sure that CDOL looks correct first. If they aren't in CDOL they won't have rights. If they are in CDOL and don't have rights it is because of either the data not making it to the header (that would be a bug), or limitations in the individual applications in how the give rights and which unit they look at (either your assigned unit vs. your position unit).
Ryan Jones

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Former Ward Clerk

jonesrk
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Postby jonesrk » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:26 am

eblood66 wrote:If JonesRK is agreeable, I would suggest you take someone who does not have rights. First check CDOL to make sure they show up in the correct standard position. Then have them Sign into lds.org and then go to http://lds.org/header. PM the results to JonesRK and see if he can determine why the person doesn't have the rights they should. Hopefully, he will pipe in here and say whether he has time to take a look.

When you look at the header look for the row with policy-ldspositions this identifies what positions you are in. It may have multiple colon separated positions. For each position it has the format of
p<position type id>/<org type id>u<unit number>/<parent org type id>u<parent unit number>/
the org types that you will see that matter are
5 - stake
6 - district
7 - ward
8 - branch
for example mine is p803/5u999999/1u111111/: p53/5u999999/1u111111/ (with unit numbers replaced and space added to disable smiley). This shows that I am a STS (803) in my stake and a stake assistant clerk (53) in the same stake.

For the most part you would be looking to see that a position is there for the correct unit (in the case of YSA units) instead of the home unit.
Ryan Jones

CDOL Developer

Stake Technology Specialist - Software / Stake Assistant Clerk

Former Ward Clerk

cognifloyd
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Postby cognifloyd » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:57 am

OK. I'll give that a go. I'll be able to work on this some more on Sunday, when I'll talk with the High Councilor I have in mind to test this with.

Thanks again, that's such a relief to have an extra mind on this.

cognifloyd
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Postby cognifloyd » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:04 pm

eblood66 wrote:I'm not sure where you were told that the out-of-unit records had to match the IOS for multiple fields


Oh, and to answer this question: That's what Local Unit Support says. They say, that for a leader to get permissions to the online tools, you must get a copy of their IOS, and create an out-of-unit record that matches "everything" exactly. When I pressed the one guy, (who probably has to deal with a lot of odd requests, poor guy), he said that when Local Unit Support requested (he didn't say who they asked) the list of required fields (the list of what should 'match'), they were told the list 'was not available' and that 'everything' should match. Plus, he didn't know who else I could talk to to figure it out, so I came here.


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