Maintain Ward GEO codes? Rename, Delete

[jbh001]

Our unit is rather spread out and covers several postal codes. Since they hadn't used geocodes prior to my moving in, I created my own based on the postal ZIP code and carrier route which in the United States can be found with this utility. After the address is standardized by this website, you can get the carrier route by clicking on the Mailing Industry Information link. I had to take out one of the zeros from the carrier routes in order to make it fit in the 8 character limit of the geocode fields. A sample geocode looks like 12345C01. I use the same code for ward geocodes and stake geocodes. That way the stake might be able to use it in modeling boundary realignments and such. I use a geocode of ANK (Address Not Known) for PO BOXes and until I can get the USPS standardized address along with the ZIP+4 and carrier route. For this reason it would be nice if the geocode files were expanded so that they could handle an eleven-digit delivery point code (ZIP+4+2).

On a side note, I use that same USPS website to get county information to add, correct, or complete birth place and marriage place information. If a record lists a place a Logan, UT, I will get the county information by going to the USPS website, typing in GENERAL DELIVERY for the delivery address, filling in the City and State, submitting the entry, and then clicking on the Mailing Industry Information link to show the county.

[russellhltn]

On a side note, I use that same USPS website to get county information to add, correct, or complete birth place and marriage place information.

Careful - sometimes county lines change. What county a town is in today, may not have been the county it was in yesterday. That's a problem we face in family history work.

[jbh001]

Careful - sometimes county lines change.

But how frequently does this happen today? Has there been a significant number of changes in county lines in the U.S. during the last ~80 years (which would affect MLS users) versus changes that occurred more than 80 years ago (which would affect family history research on deceased ancestors)?

For example, I can't think of anyone that would need to be listed in MLS as being born or married (the only two locations MLS tracks in detail) in the State of Franklin.

I think the point is that, for family history work, the purpose of listing the county is mostly to know where to go to get copies of birth and marriage certificates. As these documents increasingly become available online, the relevance of county information diminishes (although it will never become entirely irrelevant).

Even if the USPS county information can't be reliably applied retroactively the further back in time one goes, in most cases it ought to at least get you "in the ballpark."

[russellhltn]

But how frequently does this happen today? Has there been a significant number of changes in county lines in the U.S. during the last ~80 years

I love Google. Link

I think the point is that, for family history work, the purpose of listing the county is mostly to know where to go to get copies of birth and marriage certificates.

I would agree with that statement. But what is the purpose or value of having it on the membership record? Why not just leave it alone? If it's blank, it's blank.

Even if the USPS county information can't be reliably applied retroactively the further back in time one goes, in most cases it ought to at least get you "in the ballpark."

There is no "ballpark". Either it's right or it's wrong. If it's wrong, you will send someone to the wrong location. Worse, because that city was a part of that county, they might never realize they are looking in the wrong location. Missing information forces people to find out.

I have reason to believe that before too long we'll have the ability to consult a "period appropriate" database for locations. Perhaps as part of nFS. I think it's best to leave it to the future researcher to do the lookup.

[jbh001]

But what is the purpose or value of having it on the membership record? Why not just leave it alone? If it's blank, it's blank.

And if it's mispelt, it's mispelt.

MLS data is used to populate the FamilySearch database. After someone dies, corrections and clarifications can no longer be made to a membership record. What is the value of having counties in family history records of they are that superfluous?

Missing information forces people to find out.

And find out the same information over, and over, and over again.

There is no "ballpark". Either it's right or it's wrong.

My experience with family history has been different. YMMV.

II think it's best to leave it to the future researcher to do the lookup.

This statement makes no sense when applied to MLS. The information can be verified and corrected now, while the persons are still living. Why wait until 150 years or some other period after the fact to do something that can be done now?

By similar reasoning, I should not bother doing missionary work now while I can, I should wait until my neighbors and friends are dead and then do their temple work for them instead.

[russellhltn]

And if it's mispelt, it's mispelt.

I can see the value of correcting the spelling.

MLS data is used to populate the FamilySearch database. After someone dies, corrections and clarifications can no longer be made to a membership record. What is the value of having counties in family history records of they are that superfluous?

What is the damage done by incorrect information that has similarly been solidified?

And find out the same information over, and over, and over again.

nFS allows for "disputes" and combining with other records to solve that problem. But an incorrect county could mislead folk until the correction is made. And then others may see the conflicting information and end up re-researching that. Incorrect information is much more damaging then no information.

This statement makes no sense when applied to MLS. The information can be verified and corrected now, while the persons are still living. Why wait until 150 years or some other period after the fact to do something that can be done now?

The issue is inserting correct information. You're applying a current database (USPS) to historical events. Furthermore, if I understand you correctly, you are doing this to people you are only acquainted with from a part of the country you know little to nothing about. All based on a computer database which is being used for a purpose other then what it was intended for. If that is not the case, please correct me. I would have no qualms about adding the county if it was from an area and time period I had personal knowledge of. I submit that the risk of incorrect information outweighs the benefit of your correct entries.

I appreciate what you are trying to do, I just think you have the wrong tool. The next few years will bring about databases that are intended to be used for exactly this purpose.

My all means, have the member review their membership record. Have them verify the location. (But I don't have much hope they'll know the county. A surprisingly large number of members can't even give you the proper name of the stake they attend.)

By similar reasoning, I should not bother doing missionary work now while I can, I should wait until my neighbors and friends are dead and then do their temple work for them instead.

Apple and oranges. There is no "present value" in updating the membership record. Only the window of opportunity to affect genealogy records ("Future Value"). The "present value" of missionary work is large and will lead to an even greater "future value".

[terrysackett]

That answers a question for me, too. My stake assigned my ward six Geo codes for an imminent boundary realignment which is now not going to happen. Anyway, one of the codes covers an area where no homes exist, so when I get a move-in and click on Geo code, the fifth out of six codes are the only ones that show up as choices. Makes sense.

[lajackson]

With the Stake Geo Code I just use a numeric 1.

Unless the stake has asked you to fill it in, you do not have to put anything in the Stake Geo Code. This may save you some time.

The stake will probably change it anyway, if they are using them for anything.