MLS Graphing Program

[hpaulsen]

Item 4: I'll get down to the stake computer this week and see how an svg is formatted.

I meant copy the graph as an svg file instead of bitmap.

Item 5: What do you mean here? Different points like triangles, squares, etc., or show point values when graphed? Right now they show up if you mouse-over, but that's it.

I meant different shapes for the data points as well as the options to show/hide them.

Item 6: Color is there, just right click any of the check boxes. I'll add the other things to this as well.

Ah, I see it now. Sorry I missed it.

Item 7: This should work fine for wards because the export would only contain one ward's data, right?

It doesn't work for wards. It doesn't actually import anything. I think it's because you're ignoring the "Line totals" field, and this is the one that has the ward's data on a ward export.

One thing I forgot - graphs of percentages would be really nice, too. But without cluttering the list of items. Not sure how that would work....

Thanks for the feed back. I'd really like to get this polished and have it used all over. I think it could be a good benefit.

I absolutely agree!

-Hyrum

[mkmurray]

I am a .NET developer myself and love playing around with whatever new stuff Microsoft has. With that said, I'm surprised you chose to have such heavy requirements for an MLS computer (.NET 3.5 Framework, Office 2007 DB drivers, etc.). I know you can download .NET 3.5, but it's not even officially supported through Microsoft Update on Windows XP, only 3.0 has been distributed thus far to XP through that means. I guess I consider Microsoft Update a sort of "official" channel; if it's distributed through there, then Microsoft feels it ready enough for all and pledges support.

Obviously you're using one of the new Visual Studio distros. Have you considered changing your project to target .NET 2.0? I imagine the image on the MLS computers is likely to already have that and I don't see the Church switching to Vista any time soon.

I'd like to hear your response and appreciate the great work you've done on this. Thanks!

[aebrown]

I've just finished building a graphing utility for MLS. I know graphing is something that has been wanted for quite a while, but we can only use Excel for so long, right?

I'm curious what the justification is for that statement about using Excel. Personally I find that Excel (or OpenOffice Calc -- I'll refer to Exel from now on, but I know that Calc or other solutions are equivalent) meets my graphing needs just fine. While I can see ways in which a graphing application may work well for you personally, I fail to see how the benefits outweigh the disadvantages for the MLS community at large.

Please don't think I am trying to stifle innovation -- I love to see anything that moves technology forward and improves our ability to provide helpful information to priesthood leaders. But I'd appreciate hearing your response to these issues. Note that I have not yet tried the application -- frankly I've been scared off by the early responses, and as you will see below, I don't really see how it's worth the time.

• Application has to be downloaded, along with other components it depends on,
  • Excel is almost certainly already installed on adminstrative computers
• Application has specific graphs determined by the developer
  • Excel can create any graph I want
• Application requires data to be imported in a specific format
  • Excel can accept the data structured in any way I choose to present it
• Changes to graphs require a rebuild of the application, which requires users to convince the developer to make such changes, and then necessitates a delay in the user's ability to deliver these new graphs.
  • Users can make changes to graphs or add entirely new graphs in Excel in a matter of minutes, without cooperation from anyone else.
• Application requires new learning curve on installation and use
  • Clerks most likely already know how to use Excel.
• (I don't know how the graphs from the application will integrate with other applications)
  • Excel graphs are easily included in Word documents, printed to PDF, shared with various users because of the common file format, etc.

So to my way of thinking, Excel is easier and more flexible in just about every way. I imagine it is also just as powerful (although I can't be sure of that at this point). So except for the developer (for whom some of these points have far less impact), who will be better off using the application rather than Excel?

[hpaulsen]

I fully agree that Excel and Calc are more sophisticated, more powerful, and more flexible. This is exactly why it's a problem. To that end, there are two specific situations where I have seen a need for a dedicated graphing program with a simple interface in my stake:

First, many of the clerks in my stake are not very computer literate. If I asked them to give me a graph of just about any data, they would have no idea how to do so. Because of this, I haven't seen any graphs in use in any of the units I serve except for those that I create myself (oh - and the ones created by the mission covering our area which are used in meetings with the stake presidency). I will not argue the benefit of graphs beyond saying that I have noticed several assumptions made on tabular data which are not true, as can be seen readily when looking at graphical data. I would like to see graphical analyses used much more often. Making it easier to create these graphical analyses for people with limited computer skills is essential for this goal.

Second, because I am responsible for data for an entire stake, I find it extremely important to prepare charts in exactly the same format across several different units, making unit-to-unit comparisons more accurate. Formatting all of these graphs the same takes a great deal of time, as does importing the information (which by default imports into separate sheets for each quarter which then must be copied-and-pasted into other arrangements for graphing purposes). Because it takes so much time to do this, I am less inclined to do it on a regular basis - and in fact have not recently for this very reason.

As far as the usability of the charts, they can be copied and pasted into any document, just as the excel charts.

[R-Enemy-p40]

I'm surprised you chose to have such heavy requirements for an MLS computer (.NET 3.5 Framework, Office 2007 DB drivers, etc.).

The Office 2007 driver has been removed. This was an oversight on my part. I only have Access 2007 on my machine so when I made my template database I used that. Then I just included a connection to that database. I didn't even realize it was a new driver until HPaulsen responded here. I am now using the JET 4.0 driver. As far as the .NET framework, I am using the newest one because I don't have any of the older ones installed (recently re-formatted my machine and got rid of anything I don't use often). I didn't realize the download size difference (~70MB compared to ~30MB for 2.0). I guess I could revert back, but if I end up doing more things and later requiring the 3.5, that would be a pain too. My thinking here is most church computers probably don't have any .NET framework installed, so why not just take 3.5 on a flash drive and install the latest?

Alan_Brown, I am sick of working with Excel/OpenOffice. This is why I made this. I'm no beginner in Excel by any means and I use it every day at work. I know how great it as and where it lacks in user friendliness. If Excel works for you then great. In my situation I made a big Excel file that did a lot of what this program does. It imported the exports from MLS, created different graphs for each ward on different sheets and worked just fine all running off macros. The problem was, I moved out of the stake and now I have that stake and my current stake wanting these graphs. Excel is too hard to keep multiple versions and have it work for any ward/stake. So, rather than remake my Excel file I decided to make something that works across the board and updates can be distributed online. This program in no way was made to replace Excel. This program is simply to give you a graphical look at different areas and have it be fast and easy to use. If people can use this then that's awesome, if not, oh well because I needed to make it for my stake anyway.

Application has to be downloaded, along with other components it depends on, Excel is almost certainly already installed on adminstrative computers

Yes, this application and .NET framework needs to be installed. That's it. You can do what I did and put them on a flash drive because our church's internet is very slow. Excel wasn't installed on our computer.

Application has specific graphs determined by the developer. Excel can create any graph I want.

This is why I posted this app here. I want user input to determine what graphs to have. Yes, Excel is a great graphing tool.

Application requires data to be imported in a specific format. Excel can accept the data structured in any way I choose to present it

This is to minimize human error. All it is is a tab-delimited file but I need some way to tell what year and quarter it is for. You need to do the same determination and parsing if you dump it to Excel. Excel is just converting tab-delimited to cells behind the scenes.

Changes to graphs require a rebuild of the application, which requires users to convince the developer to make such changes, and then necessitates a delay in the user's ability to deliver these new graphs. Users can make changes to graphs or add entirely new graphs in Excel in a matter of minutes, without cooperation from anyone else.

Isn't this a cool thing. Users submit ideas and hopefully everyone can benefit. You make a cool graph in Excel, only one stake or ward benefits.

Application requires new learning curve on installation and use. Clerks most likely already know how to use Excel.

Hopefully someone would be able to install this with no training. It's just two setup files, .NET and this. Yes, learning how to use this would take some time, but not near as much as teaching someone how to create a graph in Excel and have them re-do that every quarter. From my experience, many "users" of Excel still struggle to make a meaningful graph.

I don't know how the graphs from the application will integrate with other applications. Excel graphs are easily included in Word documents, printed to PDF, shared with various users because of the common file format, etc.

Any of the graphs can be printed. If you have a pdf printer, this would work fine to print to pdf. Any graph can also be saved in a variety of formats including .jpg. So any app (Word and Excel included) that can read a .jpg would work fine.


Again, this is just a side project and I thought others could benefit from it. Take it for what it's worth and I'm sorry to anyone that just read my novel of a post.

-Randy

[aebrown]

Again, this is just a side project and I thought others could benefit from it. Take it for what it's worth and I'm sorry to anyone that just read my novel of a post.

I sort of asked for a novel of a post, so I appreciate your taking the time to respond with those details. I found your responses to be enlightening and I will download the app and give it a try.

[ericb]

I looked through this thread and would appreciate one clarification -- does this tool support data from MLS at the ward level, or does it require data from the stake level?

[hpaulsen]

The last version that I tested did not work for ward data directly. I'd wait to try it until it does. If you can't wait, however, you can do the following:

1. Edit->Copy to File the quarterly reports (make sure to name them like 2004_3 - year underscore quarter)
2. Change the extensions from .csv to .txt
3. Open each text file, delete "Totals" and enter a ward abbreviation
4. Open Ward Graphs, and import the data file. You will get a SQL error (details below) forcing the program to quit.
5. Open the program again, and the data will be there. Repeat for each quarter.

As I said, it's probably better to wait until R-Enemy fixes it. Primarily for his benefit, here's the sql error given when "Totals" is renamed:
[INDENT]Unable to execute command: INSERT INTO data (dataYear, dataQuarter, dataWard, dataName, dataValue, dataUpdated) VALUES (2007,2,'%','Total members',,#2/23/2008 2:22:43 PM#)

Error: Syntax error in INSERT INTO statement.
[/INDENT]