Membership directory indentation - third-level

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dmaynes
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Membership directory indentation - third-level

Postby dmaynes » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:07 am

I searched the forum and found three threads that tangentially bear on the issue, but none address this particular question/concern. If this topic has already been posted, please move this to the right thread.

Lost family?
Issues with nonmember spouse records added by "Add Spouse to Household" link
Surnames

The Membership directory displays names under the surname with one, two or three levels of indentation. The first level is used for a parent (or parents). The second level is used for children of the parents. I am unsure why there is a third level of indentation.

I think it is used for dependents who have a different surname than the family name, but I'm not sure. This could be children who were from previous marriages, foster children, or other children who just may be living with the family.

Can anyone confirm this?

I wonder if this third level of indentation is desirable. I noticed a family in our ward where one of the children is listed this way and I didn't realize there was a difference with this child (There are actually several families). It seems like it creates a distinction that most members of the ward do not need to know. As such, it could create questions and issues when a family is doing its best to integrate this child.

My neighbors have two such children and I know they are from the wife's prior marriage (They have a different surname). So the other children in this family who are older (and one is mixed between them in age) are not indented because they are from the father's prior marriage. The youngest is the child of both parents and is not indented. It seems odd to indent names for the mother's children from a prior marriage and not the father's children from a prior marriage.

In my opinion, the third level of indentation should be removed. It may be important for teachers and leaders to know legal names of children, but that information should be available through MLS. I don't understand why it's necessary for all the ward members to have that information.

Thanks,
Dennis

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AileneRHerrick
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Postby AileneRHerrick » Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:04 am

Hi! I've seen the third indentation too.

As far as last legal names, my website lists the full legal name of anyone who has a different last name than the head-of-household. I don't know if the indentation is different on those or not.

The reason I would see for indentation would be for dependents of dependents. For example, a mom whose 17-year old daughter lives with her and the daughter has a baby. The baby could be indented under the daughter.

I guess sometimes they do it when the "dependents" are not directly related. For example, someone has a niece living with them...

Looking through my ward directory though, I think that your guess is pretty much correct.

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:06 am

dmaynes wrote:The Membership directory displays names under the surname with one, two or three levels of indentation. The first level is used for a parent (or parents). The second level is used for children of the parents. I am unsure why there is a third level of indentation.

I think it is used for dependents who have a different surname than the family name, but I'm not sure. This could be children who were from previous marriages, foster children, or other children who just may be living with the family.


In membership directories, the rows are indented as follows:
  • 0 spaces: Household last name
  • 3 spaces: Parents
  • 6 spaces: Children who share the household last name
  • 7 spaces: Children with a different last name
The third level of indentation is indeed for children who have a different surname. For such children, their full name is listed, including the surname; for the other children only their first name (and middle name, if they have one) is listed. It seems to me that there should be something to indicate that there is a last name included. The extra indentation is a subtle, but helpful indicator that you should treat the name as a full name.

If you didn't have some indicator, there would be no way of knowing if in the "Smith" family "Sarah Edwards" was actually "Sarah Edwards Smith" or "Sarah Edwards" with a different surname. In MLS household reports, such children are listed as "Last, First Middle" while all other children are listed simply as "First Middle"; this is clearer, but far less subtle, so it would seem to exacerbate the issue you are concerned with.

dmaynes wrote:In my opinion, the third level of indentation should be removed. It may be important for teachers and leaders to know legal names of children, but that information should be available through MLS. I don't understand why it's necessary for all the ward members to have that information.


I would tend to disagree. It's not just teachers and leaders who need to know the actual names of people. It's not like the "legal name" is a mere technicality; this is truly the name they go by. It's not an embarrassment, and it's not that they are second-class members of the family. They actually do have a different last name. Any member of the ward who is interested in knowing the name (for contacting that child, listing them on a talent night program, writing about them in a newsletter recognizing an accomplishment, etc.) should know the actual name.

eblood66
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Postby eblood66 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:19 am

Alan_Brown wrote:I would tend to disagree. It's not just teachers and leaders who need to know the actual names of people. It's not like the "legal name" is a mere technicality; this is truly the name they go by. It's not an embarrassment, and it's not that they are second-class members of the family. They actually do have a different last name. Any member of the ward who is interested in knowing the name (for contacting that child, listing them on a talent night program, writing about them in a newsletter recognizing an accomplishment, etc.) should know the actual name.


I have seen situations where the children (and the family) want the children to be known by their legal last name and others where the children commonly go by the family last name even if their legal name is different. I don't have MLS in front of me now but I think this can be accommodated by editing the last name portion of the preferred name. If the preferred last name is the same as the family name then the children show up at the same indentation level in the directory without the last name listed separately.

Can anyone verify this?

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aebrown
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Postby aebrown » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:05 am

eblood66 wrote:I have seen situations where the children (and the family) want the children to be known by their legal last name and others where the children commonly go by the family last name even if their legal name is different. I don't have MLS in front of me now but I think this can be accommodated by editing the last name portion of the preferred name. If the preferred last name is the same as the family name then the children show up at the same indentation level in the directory without the last name listed separately.

Can anyone verify this?


This is correct for MLS. Changing the Last Name field of the Preferred Name in MLS will have that effect on all MLS reports that use Preferred Name (which is most reports, unless the Name Options has been changed from the default to "Use Full Names" under System Options > System).

If you try to change the Last Name field of the Full Name, however, you are asked to explain the reason for the change (verified legal name change, adoption, marriage, etc.). If it's not a legal name change of some sort, MLS won't let you change the Full Name, but suggests that you make the change in the Preferred Name field.

Note, however, that the MLS Preferred Name has nothing to do with how the name will appear on the website (LUWS). The LUWS Preferred Name is a totally different field, and only allows you to change the First/Middle name. The LUWS last name comes from the official last name from the Full Name on the membership record, which is set in MLS as described above.

dmaynes
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Edit the LUWS display names to remove indentation

Postby dmaynes » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:53 am

Alan_Brown wrote:Note, however, that the MLS Preferred Name has nothing to do with how the name will appear on the website (LUWS). The LUWS Preferred Name is a totally different field, and only allows you to change the First/Middle name. The LUWS last name comes from the official last name from the Full Name on the membership record, which is set in MLS as described above.


Sometimes all it takes is a little bit of experimentation to answer questions. The LUWS allows the Website Administrator to change the name that is displayed.

1. The LUWS appears to have four name fields: Legal surname, Full name, Preferred Name in MLS, and Display name in LUWS. When the website administrator chooses to change the LUWS display names, the names that are displayed on the edit screen are the MLS Preferred names. If only one LUWS display name of a child needs to be changed, and LUWS display names have already been entered, they will need to be remembered and re-entered for all the family members. Corollary: It is important to set the preferred names in MLS. This will avoid a lot of hassles with trying to manage LUWS display names.

2. If the LUWS display name of these children is just edited to the first name only (remove the middle names and legal surname), there is no indentation.

3. If it is important to have the third level of indentation then the middle name cannot be excluded. The LUWS display name must be kept empty.

I don't have access to MLS, so I don't know how Preferred Names of children who have different surnames than the household name are handled.

Thank you all for being patient,
Dennis

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:38 pm

dmaynes wrote:The LUWS appears to have four name fields: Legal surname, Full name, Preferred Name in MLS, and Display name in LUWS. When the website administrator chooses to change the LUWS display names, the names that are displayed on the edit screen are the MLS Preferred names. If only one LUWS display name of a child needs to be changed, and LUWS display names have already been entered, they will need to be remembered and re-entered for all the family members. Corollary: It is important to set the preferred names in MLS. This will avoid a lot of hassles with trying to manage LUWS display names.


That's not what I'm seeing.

When I go into the LUWS edit screen, I see the Family Surname and the First and Middle legal names for each member. These are not editable fields. The only editable field is shown is the current LUWS preferred first/middle name. This could have been entered previously by the member when they set up their account or by an administrator. It is likely to be the same as the MLS preferred name, but I see no sign that the data was transfered electronically. When I changed my name to add a middle initial and went back in, it showed my middle initial, not my MLS preferred name.

I know when LUWS came out, some administrations were sensitive to the fact that the default is the full legal name and with MLS print-outs in hand went though and edited everyone's name in LUWS. I think that's what you're seeing. The bulk of my ward still displays full legal name.
Have you searched the Wiki?
Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

dmaynes
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Postby dmaynes » Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:48 pm

RussellHltn wrote:That's not what I'm seeing.

When I go into the LUWS edit screen, I see the Family Surname and the First and Middle legal names for each member. These are not editable fields. ...


That's correct. I inferred that there are four fields in the database. The legal surname is definitely being kept somewhere. And because the default name values that are shown when you edit preferred names are not the LUWS preferred names and they are not always the full names (which are also present in the system), I inferred that those names are the MLS preferred names. When I do a search for the member name for a new calling, the full name is shown. Therefore, even though all the fields are not shown on the same screen, you can see that they are all used for specific purposes.

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:12 pm

dmaynes wrote:And because the default name values that are shown when you edit preferred names are not the LUWS preferred names


You might want to re-check that as that's not what I found in my testing. Maybe it had something to do with the fact that I edited my own name rather than someone else's. Perhaps the default is what the member enters? My ward has many names with no default whatsoever.
Have you searched the Wiki?

Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

dmaynes
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Postby dmaynes » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:13 pm

RussellHltn wrote:You might want to re-check that as that's not what I found in my testing. Maybe it had something to do with the fact that I edited my own name rather than someone else's. Perhaps the default is what the member enters? My ward has many names with no default whatsoever.


I may have to defer to your experience. Most of the names in my ward do not have preferred names set because I haven't gotten around to doing it. But some do. The family where I was testing had some of the preferred names set, but not all of them. I know that I didn't set the preferred names. These members are not signed up for LUWS, so they didn't do it themselves. That leaves two potential sources: The preferred names were populated from MLS at some point, or the preferred names were assigned in LUWS in another ward. I don't know how the preferred names were assigned.

Do you know if MLS preferred names are propagated to LUWS?


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