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Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:11 am
by johnshaw
I feel your pain. The FM/Stake relationship is the most broken organizational structure I've ever encountered. Where it works well, it is only due to personalities involved at that is always a recipe for failure.

Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:37 am
by JonesRC
We purchased a 46" flat screen for our Stake and a appropriate stand for it. I have seen cracked bases on TVs that have been attached to the big black carts and whether it's a old CRT or new flat screen they are just clunky and difficult to move through hallways.

Along with our flat screen we purchased a Peerless cart for flat screens:

http://www.amazon.com/Peerless-Universa ... lling+Cart

It is easy to see around, has a nice metal shelf for devices, cord wrap, and large wheels for pushing around. I feel a lot more comfortable having the flat screen on an appropriate cart that was designed for this application.

Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:38 am
by Gary_Miller
JonesRC wrote:We purchased a 46" flat screen for our Stake and a appropriate stand for it. I have seen cracked bases on TVs that have been attached to the big black carts and whether it's a old CRT or new flat screen they are just clunky and difficult to move through hallways.

Along with our flat screen we purchased a Peerless cart for flat screens:

http://www.amazon.com/Peerless-Universa ... lling+Cart

It is easy to see around, has a nice metal shelf for devices, cord wrap, and large wheels for pushing around. I feel a lot more comfortable having the flat screen on an appropriate cart that was designed for this application.

($400 for the television) + ($400 for the cart) = ($800)/($250 cost of camp for one Youth) =3.2 youth who ether did not go to camp or had a stain placed on their family budget. All because the stake choose to not follow the proper channels when purchasing equipment.

On top of that the TV that was purchased was well over the maximum size guidelines for meeting house libraries.

Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:51 am
by gregwanderson
I like it... just "yikes" on the price. That's more than we paid for a good 39" TV itself. (The TV was on sale.) Since we already have the TV, maybe the FM group could pitch in on the cart for it.

Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:03 am
by gregwanderson
Gary_Miller wrote:On top of that the TV that was purchased was well over the maximum size guidelines for meeting house libraries.

Is that 25" limit still the current guideline? Seems pretty out-dated to me. If you go into any typical electronics store the smallest flat-screen TV today is 19 inches. There aren't many to choose from and even in the 24" size there aren't many.

The meetinghouse library "start-up" recommendations strike me as about 20 years old. If the 25" size was recommended for a standard-definition, heavy, tube-based (CRT) monitor then the screen on that TV was 15 inches tall. Today, if you had a flat-screen (lightweight), HDTV monitor with a 15-inch-tall screen, then the diagonal measurement on that screen would be just under 31 inches. So the correct upgrade for an old 25" monitor would be closer to today's 32-inch specification. Also, I presume that part of the reason for the 25" limit was that anything larger would be very heavy and potentially dangerous to wheel around the building. That is no longer an issue. Furthermore, I recall buying a 26" TV in 1989 for about $600 (for a respectable Mitsubishi model). Today, that $600 could go a lot further.

So, in summary, I reject the 25-inch limit and believe that the meetinghouse library "start up kit" recommendations should be re-written from scratch (for reasons that include what they say about TVs and VCRs as well as other items).
https://www.lds.org/callings/sunday-school/leader-resources/library-start-up-kit?lang=eng

Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:12 am
by Gary_Miller
mrrad wrote:So, in summary, I reject the 25-inch limit and believe that the "start up kit" recommendations should be re-written from scratch (for reasons that include what they say about TVs and VCRs as well as other items).
You can reject it all you want. It still does not justify going outside the guidelines set by the leadership of the church, no matter how you feel about it.

Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:07 am
by gregwanderson
So I guess I'll have to get rid of the DVDs, the DVD player and anything that can play videos from a USB flash drive, since they're not on that list. :D And I'll bring the transparency, overhead projector back up from storage and make sure it's front-and-center on a library shelf. :cool:

Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:23 am
by JonesRC
This will be an ongoing debate until options are presented and decisions are made at the Enterprise level. Many Stakes choose to update their local hardware striving to strike a balance with using the media the Church has created, and encouraged members to use, with how to spend their local budget. Current guidelines also don't include a Roku or WD Box but it is a recommendation that has been provided as an option but that is currently NOT supported by HQ. Many are finding it necessary to upgrade current equipment so they can use the resources being created by the Church. It just happens that media creation is currently ahead of local units ability, with current standard equipment, to use it. There are a lot of creative, and cost effective, solutions being installed around the Church so members can use the media the Church produces. There is no doubt that when properly used media can inspire and invite the Spirit. It is not required to teach but a picture speaks a thousand words and hearing the words of Prophets and Apostles lends so much to the context of a quote. Mormon Messages and I Am A Mormon videos help inspire and help us relate to members around the World who face similar challenges and questions. Hearing and seeing members testimonies helps connect and make us feel like we are part of something much bigger. The New Youth Curriculum training videos help teachers and youth better understand the program and helps us see it in action by seeing it modeled. I don't fault anyone for determining and balancing their locals needs with how to incorporate LDS media into teaching and training. Hopefully, in time, equipment will catch up so the full burden of purchase doesn't rest on local units.

Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:47 am
by Gary_Miller
I hear you and understand all your pain. However, may argument is not about using the media that's available, I totally support it. My argument is that funding media equipment is not a proper use of LUBA, that is what the FM budget is for. And while FM may be slow, do to budget constants, they are still responsible for funding of media equipment.

As a long time youth leader and a ward clerk I see the burden that is place on ward budgets and families when there is not enough money to fund youth the youth program. I have seen the effect not having a good program has on the activity levels of youth, and the outcome is not pretty. It does not matter how good the videos are for Sunday lessons or how well they are presented, If you can't get the youth there it is all for nothing. Good weekday youth activities ensure that youth are kept involved in the gospel on Sunday.

LUBA funds directed to media equipment is money taken from youth activity budgets, which place a financial burden on families and youth leaders.

Re: Replacing OLD style TV and Trolley for Meeting House use

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:52 am
by gregwanderson
I've watched several of these new videos for the youth and I'm very impressed. Having these kinds of presentations every week may be more useful than, say, a once-a-year campout (but we're still having the campout anyway). In our case, new AV equipment was paid for entirely by leftover budget money from previous years which, these days, we're able to keep. The Bishops evaluated the absolutely pathetic assortment of outdated equipment in our library and the Stake/FM Group unwillingness to help. Then the Bishops made their decision. They've already received dozens of hours of free help (from me) to get it all put together along with managing the video files and USB drives for them. Financially, I think they got a very good deal. :) The grateful feedback I personally received from a stranger in another ward is, as they say in the commercial, priceless.