How do you encode SAP?

Discussions around receiving, originating, and holding Church broadcasts and conferences in meetinghouses including schedules, setup, equipment, and support.
skiptaylor
Member
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:13 pm
Location: Lancaster CA

How do you encode SAP?

Postby skiptaylor » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:52 pm

I've been wondering how one could take what's in our AV closet and put it together such that we have our 2nd language encoded as SAP (Second Audio Program) so one DVD could record both languages. The recorder will do it, but can't see how the equipment would manage.

Does anyone know how the SAP could be encoded for such from a satellite broadcast??
Skip Taylor :eek:
Lancaster CA.

russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 20762
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

Postby russellhltn » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:08 pm

I haven't played with DVDs much. I'm sure the recorder can receive and record the SAP signal. But are you sure that recorder can receiver and record the SAP programming in addition to the main channel? That strikes me as a rather unusual feature for a consumer product.

I think the first step is to connect it to an antenna and make a few recordings.

skiptaylor
Member
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:13 pm
Location: Lancaster CA

Postby skiptaylor » Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:15 am

I just carefully re-read that portion of the manual and it won't record both main (stereo or mono) and SAP at the same time. It's an either/or situation.

I was thinking it would so I guess I need new brain pills. :D

It would be nice to be able to record the video, both CC channels and both audio at once though. Someday perhaps. :)

I still wonder how it gets encoded if it's a setup like what we have at the meetinghouses. Perhaps it's a function of the RF modulators?
Skip Taylor :eek:
Lancaster CA.

russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 20762
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

Postby russellhltn » Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:18 pm

avskip wrote:[size=100]I still wonder how it gets encoded if it's a setup like what we have at the meetinghouses. Perhaps it's a function of the RF modulators?


I don't think SAP is used in our equipment. What I've seen are multiple modulators. Tune to channel 5 for English and channel 6 for Spanish or something like that. I didn't look very far for SAP capable modulators, but it looked like the price tag was $800 just for SAP and then you still needed the modulator to connect it to. :eek: "Plain Jane" modulators are cheap.

Besides, it doesn't scale well. What happens if you have multiple languages? There may be two SAP channels so once you get beyond 3 languages, you need another TV channel to carry things on anyway.

jbh001
Community Moderators
Posts: 854
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:17 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Postby jbh001 » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:39 am

Isn't this becoming more of a moot point with General Conference DVDs being available from ldscatalog.com and other broadcasts (in various languages) available from lds.org?

Edit:
I just noticed this Web Feeds page. Cool! Anyone up for General Conference podcast?

cboling
New Member
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:52 am

Why SAP?

Postby cboling » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:18 am

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that SAP ever needs to enter the picture. SAP is a standard for NTSC/RF broadcasts, and if you stay away from RF (i.e. separate audio/video) you're okay.

The DVB streams from the church encode two languages on each fully-separated stereo audio stream. On the North America feed, the 1st stream (or 5th, depending on how you number them) contains English on the left, Spanish on the right. The meetinghouse setups I've seen split the left audio and feed it into an RF modulator for channel 3 and into the sound system for chapel broadcasts, and feed the right channel into another RF modulator for channel 5 that the TV(s) for the Spanish-speaking group are tuned to.

If you feed the composite video and both audio channels directly into your DVD recorder (vs. using the RF which looks worse anyway) then you should be able to maintain perfect left/right channel separation, with both languages being recorded to the disc. You can then select which side you wish to listen to when you play it back. As long as your TV's are connected to your DVD players directly (not through RF) then even if you can't choose the audio channel with the DVD player or TV through software, you can unplug the cable for the channel you don't want to hear.

NOTE: I've never actually tried this with consumer equpment, so I can't confirm that it really does work. I record the church's DVB stream directly to my hard drive at home from my own C-Band dish, except for the encrypted PH session, which I have another stake record on a DVD from their Wegener, and we never seem to be able to get together so I can show them how to hook up their DVD recorder from anything but the RF feed, and they don't care about Spanish so that session ends up English-only.

II just bought a $35 DVB tuner (for backup to the Wegener) + analog capture card for grabbing the output from the Wegener so I can capture priesthood session) and am sticking an old computer with them in the satellite room so I'll be able to grab the priesthood session in both languages.

Anyway, I always separate out the languages into their own tracks on the computer, and provide two separate "real" language programs on the DVDs I produce (which come out much sooner, and actually turn out better -- in our opinion -- than the ones that come from SLC) for our stake and the surrounding stakes.

With the last conference, I found that the church added a new option: Audio track #13 on the NA feed is designated "English - Cable" and contains a very high-quality true stereo program. So now I extract two audio streams from the signal, use that one as-is for the English, and just dump the English side from the English/Spanish stream. The choir sounds beautiful on that new stream!!

skiptaylor
Member
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:13 pm
Location: Lancaster CA

Postby skiptaylor » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:59 am

cboling wrote:The DVB streams from the church encode two languages on each fully-separated stereo audio stream. On the North America feed, the 1st stream (or 5th, depending on how you number them) contains English on the left, Spanish on the right. The meetinghouse setups I've seen split the left audio and feed it into an RF modulator for channel 3 and into the sound system for chapel broadcasts, and feed the right channel into another RF modulator for channel 5 that the TV(s) for the Spanish-speaking group are tuned to.

If you feed the composite video and both audio channels directly into your DVD recorder (vs. using the RF which looks worse anyway) then you should be able to maintain perfect left/right channel separation, with both languages being recorded to the disc. You can then select which side you wish to listen to when you play it back. As long as your TV's are connected to your DVD players directly (not through RF) then even if you can't choose the audio channel with the DVD player or TV through software, you can unplug the cable for the channel you don't want to hear.

Thanks for the info on this! I'll have to see if I can take advantage of it!
Skip Taylor :eek:
Lancaster CA.

russellhltn
Community Administrator
Posts: 20762
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:53 pm
Location: U.S.

Postby russellhltn » Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:14 pm

I think the goal here was to record a dual-use DVD that could play back either of two languages. Granted, using the stereo pair would work, but it would create a DVD that would be a bit difficult to use.

Frankly, I think DVD-recorders are cheap enough that one might be better off to simply use one for each language. The best solution would be to record it on computer and find some DVD burning software that could support multiple language. If you find any, let me know.

Our receiver has an unused audio pair. I wonder if I can get SLC to program it for that new high quality stereo channel. :)
Have you searched the Wiki?
Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.


Return to “Broadcasts and Conferences”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest