Copyrighted Hymns?

Discussions around the Gospel Library application for Windows 8 Pro and RT.
pahollow
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Copyrighted Hymns?

Postby pahollow » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:04 am

Is there a timeframe for copyright Hymns being included in GL for example #86 "How Great Thou Art" et al? The listing says, "...due to licencing restrictions... Also, is there a reason why Hymn number 342 "Advance Australia Fair" is not included" it is odd in both cases that we have to pick up hard copy Hymnbooks in these few instances.

When I asked about Copyright a few years ago, I as told LDS lawyers we working on it! I know legal systems are slow but this surely this must be some kind of record (although a home teaching app may be a close second.

On the matter of inserts such as local national anthems, I was told there was no problem with inclusion at all but still it is not there. Maybe this is the wrong forum but you know "enquiring minds..."

ToManyLetters
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Re: Copyrighted Hymns?

Postby ToManyLetters » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:03 am

This is indeed the wrong place to ask about this, as the copyright issues are much more an issue of the copyright team. The Windows team merely provides access to the content.
Have a bug to report for Gospel Library for Windows v4? Check the Known Issues to see if it's been reported. (https://tech.lds.org/wiki/Gospel_Library_for_Windows_Preview_Issues)
Also visit the FAQ. (tech.lds.org/wiki/Gospel_Library_for_Windows_8_FAQ)

russellhltn
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Re: Copyrighted Hymns?

Postby russellhltn » Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:33 am

I'm not sure as it would ever be resolved. The copyright holder probably wants money. With hymnals, the cost can be recovered in the cost of the book. But the church is probably reluctant to pay for each time the free app is downloaded or however else the copyright holder proposes to license it.
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lajackson
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Re: Copyrighted Hymns?

Postby lajackson » Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:23 pm

pahollow wrote:Is there a timeframe for copyright Hymns being included in GL for example #86 "How Great Thou Art" et al?

To include copyrighted text or music requires the satisfying of the requirements of the copyright holder. Each situation is different. I know from personal experience that the copyright owner of How Great Thou Art requires a payment for each copy displayed or printed. The Church either pays the fee for every hymnbook printed, or they have entered into some other type of financial agreement with the copyright holder. To make matters even more complicated, a different company administers the rights to this particular hymn depending on whether you are in the U.S., other areas of North and South America, or other areas of the world, and whether you are seeking print rights or electronic publishing rights.
pahollow wrote:Also, is there a reason why Hymn number 342 "Advance Australia Fair" is not included"

I think the challenge here may be that hymn number 342 is not "Advance Australia Fair" in other countries. And since GL is a worldwide app, I suppose they decided not to include all of the "Hymn 342s" in the world in the app.

You might want to get a good pdf copy of that one and place it on your phone for use when a hymnbook is not otherwise handy, if it's not copyrighted, of course. That's what I did (with a different #342 in my case).

pahollow wrote:When I asked about Copyright a few years ago, I was told LDS lawyers we working on it! I know legal systems are slow but this surely this must be some kind of record (although a home teaching app may be a close second.


They may be working on it, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I suspect other things have a much higher priority. And as for home teaching, it is not even copyrighted, which is why I think you will see it first.

It is frustrating to reach for something electronically and not find it when it is so familiar in the hymn book or from some other source. It is also fun to watch from the stand the surprised looks on the faces of those who whip out their smart devices when a hymn such as that one is announced in a meeting.

pahollow
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Re: Copyrighted Hymns?

Postby pahollow » Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:27 am

Thanks everyone! Maybe the Church could pass on the cost of say a "full version" complete with all Hymns as a app cost to members. I would pay for that part of WinGL content. Here in Australia it goes onto my phone bill and I don't even think about it. Just a thought...

ToManyLetters
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Re: Copyrighted Hymns?

Postby ToManyLetters » Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:29 pm

I've thought of this as a potential thing--an in-app purchase for the otherwise unavailable pieces of the hymnal. Not sure how likely the content/copyright team is to pursue this, however. Gospel Library's biggest 'selling point' has been its large selection of content--all available for free.
Have a bug to report for Gospel Library for Windows v4? Check the Known Issues to see if it's been reported. (https://tech.lds.org/wiki/Gospel_Library_for_Windows_Preview_Issues)
Also visit the FAQ. (tech.lds.org/wiki/Gospel_Library_for_Windows_8_FAQ)

pahollow
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Re: Copyrighted Hymns?

Postby pahollow » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:40 pm

ToManyLetters I just lost what I was typing here for the third time as I jumped to other content!! Is there an autosave feature in the forums?!! I will try the gist of my post again:
1. If the Church will not provide copyrighted content for free then all they can do is make it a selected hymns download (for cost the Church needs to pay in a similar way that companies pay each other for patents) in various formats including eBooks and PDF and that brings people should have the choice
2. Maybe WinGL needs to be a sub-platform that can add content into like eBooks etc. Various app stores (Microsoft, Apple and Google) have a lot of free content but there are options for small fees - this should be the case with the Church...we already pay for some things and how good would it be to add Deseret content and even Kindle LDS titles

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sbradshaw
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Re: Copyrighted Hymns?

Postby sbradshaw » Mon May 30, 2016 10:49 am

There is at least one hymn I know of where the copyright holder has flat out denied the Church's digital use of the hymn, without offering a fee. Copyrights are complicated. Often they're not owned by the author; sometimes they're owned by another church or just a corporation. There could be different copyrights for the music, the text, and the arrangement.
Samuel Bradshaw • Interested in church apps and sites, creative recordkeeping, clerk support, YSA wards and stakes, LDS music, Vineyard at BYU, and online service.


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