Automated Music Solution

Discussions around meetinghouse sound systems, microphones, assisted listening devices, and translation equipment
gldavis1111
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Automated Music Solution

Postby gldavis1111 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:21 am

Hi All,

My stake president would like Choir music piped into the foyer for all the building to set a nice mood when folks come in during the week. It is easy to setup with an MP3 player hooked into the chapel using a Pyle connector - http://www.adorama.com/pypdc21.html?gcl ... aQodjs8K_Q

Any ideas on how to automate this setup, so I could turn the music on/off remotely, so I don't have to have myself or someone else manually do it at different times throughout the week? We may want to have this on during all weeknights for example, then turned off.

Here are my initial thoughts -

1) I need a way for music to start/stop with power turning on/off. If I can do that, I could use a power plug that can be remotely turned on/off over the Internet. Any ideas on an MP3 player, or maybe I use an intel stick, and set it to power on to a website that streams the music?

2) Would need a way to remotely turn on/off the sound system. Not sure if there is a way to do this with a power adapter.

Any other ideas on how to accomplish this?

russellhltn
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Re: Automated Music Solution

Postby russellhltn » Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:58 am

I don't think it's possible to put music in just the foyer using the building sound system without also placing it in other parts of the building which could be disruptive to activities taking place there. So you may need to put something in that's completely standalone.

A "loose" item would be attractive to theft, but something installed in the building needs to be coordinated with the FM Group. It's their building.

Then there's the issue of Copyright. You might want to read this article. Note that exceptions for religious use may apply only to actual worship meetings - not to every activity done by a church. Note that the details of the sound system can play into the Copyright issues as well. The legal issues might be why the church doesn't do this.
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kemp
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Re: Automated Music Solution

Postby kemp » Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:53 pm

This is something I've given thought to as well. In our newer building we have a multiplexer that can be controlled over IP or Serial. With a PC and scheduling it would be possible to turn on/off music in the building on a schedule. That, however, wouldn't address the challenge of people turning down the volume or switching auxiliary rooms to a different source output. It may be possible to interface with the audio control switch too but I haven't investigated that.

>Steve

jamiep39
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Re: Automated Music Solution

Postby jamiep39 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:57 am

I've helped set up similar setups in two buildings. One is an Institute building and the other is one of the new YSA stake buildings. In both cases we just found a couple old family history computers that were sitting in closets to run the music. I put VLC on them and set up scheduled tasks to start and stop VLC at certain times. In both buildings we have the Mormon Tabernacle Choir music stream playing during those times. If you don't have a lot of bandwidth, you could easily create a playlist of music to play off the computer.

The Institute building had a built in system for hallway background music that was connected to a CD player so we just interfaced into that. The office staff really like not having to change CDs out all the time anymore.

At the YSA building we got a little more creative and used the privacy mask system (leaving the privacy mask running, of course). So now instead of just hearing the wshhhhh of the privacy mask speakers while members are waiting for interviews, etc. they hear the Tabernacle Choir. We made sure it was quiet enough as to not be heard in the actual offices. All the bishops and the stake presidency love it.

All of this was done with coordination and blessing from the FM group, of course. :D

Not sure it would be feasible to get the music to play directly through the foyer speakers (definitely technically possible, but it would require having FM, or likely a subcontractor, program an input on the sound controller to go exclusively to the foyer speakers, so that'd depend on your FM group) but playing it through the privacy mask speakers, depending on your building layout, may be at least somewhat effective. Plus you wouldn't have the issue of people turning the volume down on those. Our bishops' offices are right off the foyers so you can kinda hear the music as you're coming in if it's quiet.

russellhltn
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Re: Automated Music Solution

Postby russellhltn » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:23 am

jamiep39 wrote:Not sure it would be feasible to get the music to play directly through the foyer speakers (definitely technically possible, but it would require having FM, or likely a subcontractor, program an input on the sound controller to go exclusively to the foyer speakers, so that'd depend on your FM group)

I'm not so sure as the foyer has it's own amp. I could just be a 70V speaker running off the chapel amp.
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Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

jamiep39
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Re: Automated Music Solution

Postby jamiep39 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:33 am

russellhltn wrote:I'm not so sure as the foyer has it's own amp. I could just be a 70V speaker running off the chapel amp.


True. It varies. A lot of buildings I've seen have it set up to where if the chapel audio is off and there's audio in the cultural hall, the audio from the cultural hall goes into the foyer. If that's a case that's a good sign there's a separate amp (or at least channel) for the foyers. Otherwise it could be fed off the chapel amp or there could still be a separate channel.

russellhltn
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Re: Automated Music Solution

Postby russellhltn » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:05 am

jamiep39 wrote:A lot of buildings I've seen have it set up to where if the chapel audio is off and there's audio in the cultural hall, the audio from the cultural hall goes into the foyer. If that's a case that's a good sign there's a separate amp (or at least channel) for the foyers.

That logic could easily be handled by a relay. Relays are cheaper than amps.

I may have to poke around a more normal building to see how they do it.

I'd have to say that your FM Group is far more accommodating then others I've heard about. The installers typically leave strong anti-tampering instructions behind. I'm not sure if it's still the case, but many years ago, the system came with a "warranty" and a tech would be sent out if the system broke. But if it was found that the problem was caused by unauthorized alterations, the warranty was null and void and the FM Group would be picking up the expense of the service call. And at least in our case, the tech had to travel a considerable distance. That's pretty strong motivation.
Have you searched the Wiki?

Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

kreeve
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Re: Automated Music Solution

Postby kreeve » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:24 pm

Falcon Player (open source software) for a Raspberry pi will do the trick for the music part. The software allows you to build a playlist of songs, and schedule them. So you could have different playlists scheduled for different times. You set a start and stop time.
http://falconchristmas.com/forum/index.php?board=8.0

The software was built for another purpose but would work for what you want to accomplish.

It even has the ability to trigger GPIO's which with the right knowledge could be used to turn something electronic on or off. ;)

Kevin
YSA Stake
Logan UT


Kevin

StevePoulsen
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Re: Automated Music Solution

Postby StevePoulsen » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:45 am

russellhltn wrote:I don't think it's possible to put music in just the foyer using the building sound system without also placing it in other parts of the building which could be disruptive to activities taking place there. So you may need to put something in that's completely standalone.

A "loose" item would be attractive to theft, but something installed in the building needs to be coordinated with the FM Group. It's their building.

Then there's the issue of Copyright. You might want to read this article. Note that exceptions for religious use may apply only to actual worship meetings - not to every activity done by a church. Note that the details of the sound system can play into the Copyright issues as well. The legal issues might be why the church doesn't do this.


Jumping on to russellhltns post

1)Correct, in most buildings in North America, the foyer is not separate form other parts of the building.
2) Copyright is a huge issue, even items played on Mormon radio, or from MoTab records may not be licensed for public performance, even in a church house. Such violations would open the church up to costly litigation.
3) Needs/wants should be sent to the FM through channels (The Stake PFR, or FIR app). This documents the need/want, and ensures all parties can be made properly aware. In some cases, there may be existing policy allowing the FM to make the changes, if not, the FM group may work with the stake to submit an exception request that is sent to the DTA, or Area PFAC for a decision.

jamiep39 wrote:I've helped set up similar setups in two buildings. One is an Institute building and the other is one of the new YSA stake buildings. In both cases we just found a couple old family history computers that were sitting in closets to run the music. I put VLC on them and set up scheduled tasks to start and stop VLC at certain times. In both buildings we have the Mormon Tabernacle Choir music stream playing during those times. If you don't have a lot of bandwidth, you could easily create a playlist of music to play off the computer.


Please be aware, dedicated YSA buildings, as well as S&I building are governed by policies separate policies and practices, though the legal issues persist.

jamiep39 wrote:
russellhltn wrote:I'm not so sure as the foyer has it's own amp. I could just be a 70V speaker running off the chapel amp.


True. It varies. A lot of buildings I've seen have it set up to where if the chapel audio is off and there's audio in the cultural hall, the audio from the cultural hall goes into the foyer. If that's a case that's a good sign there's a separate amp (or at least channel) for the foyers. Otherwise it could be fed off the chapel amp or there could still be a separate channel.


I don't want to encourage making modifications to the building, hence it suffice me to say the perimeter amp is independent of the chapel and cultural hall, at it's input, the signal routing is not independent, nor is the amp independent of other systems in the building, nor is it's power control logic.
Steve Poulsen - Meetinghouse Facilities Technology Engineer


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