Wireless Microphones

Discussions around meetinghouse sound systems, microphones, assisted listening devices, and translation equipment
russellhltn
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Re: Wireless Microphones

Postby russellhltn » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:04 am

Before the RS room was air-conditioned, we didn't have a PA in there. But those first AC units were noisy, so the PA was added. Now we have quiet units, and with the carpeting and all, it's a "dead" room. But they still have a PA. And we get complaints that people can't hear if someone isn't using the mic. Part of it may be the difference between an instructor that uses the mic and a participant that doesn't - but the complaints are there.

Instructors don't want to be trapped behind the stand (we use RS for Sunday School), and they're wanting wireless to keep from tripping over the cords.

I've checked with FM. We can get wireless lavalier (uck!), but for some reasons, not wireless headsets. I detest lavalier for sound reinforcement as you can't get the same volume out of them. (Handhelds and headsets are closer to the mouth.)

Granted, Joseph Smith didn't have a mic, much less a wireless one. And thanks to PAs in general, adults have lost their "outside" voice. But today affordable technology exists, so society's standards change.
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StevePoulsen
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Re: Wireless Microphones

Postby StevePoulsen » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:27 am

russellhltn wrote:I've checked with FM. We can get wireless lavalier (uck!), but for some reasons, not wireless headsets. I detest lavalier for sound reinforcement as you can't get the same volume out of them. (Handhelds and headsets are closer to the mouth.)
This is true, and it may change, but in the foreseeable future, this is what has been approved, so if it does change, don't expect it to do so anytime soon.

If the problems persist you, could try to get them to use the Wired Lapel Mic, after that, the wireless seams like a dream.

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Re: Wireless Microphones

Postby russellhltn » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:51 am

StevePoulsen wrote:If the problems persist you, could try to get them to use the Wired Lapel Mic, after that, the wireless seams like a dream.

We've got wired lapel lying around. Not sure who ordered them. I guess we could try it and see if lapel even works. My concern is that it will increase the trip hazard. It's easy to forget a lapel and start walking around. Currently, they're using a hand-held which I think reminds them there's a cord attached.

You're the one to ask. Is there a reason the RS room has the two mic jacks connected as a "Y" instead of going to individual mic inputs on the amp? Each connector has it's own wire going to the amp, but for some reason they're tied together on the back of the amp instead of separate inputs. The reason I ask is if we put a mic in the instructor, I think they're still going to want a handheld mic for the participants.

Getting back to headsets, we did have a sister who felt strongly enough about it that she paid out of her own pocket to get 4 of them for a stake RS musical skit they put on. It made all the difference.
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Re: Wireless Microphones

Postby StevePoulsen » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:42 pm

russellhltn wrote:
StevePoulsen wrote:If the problems persist you, could try to get them to use the Wired Lapel Mic, after that, the wireless seams like a dream.

We've got wired lapel lying around. Not sure who ordered them. I guess we could try it and see if lapel even works. My concern is that it will increase the trip hazard. It's easy to forget a lapel and start walking around. Currently, they're using a hand-held which I think reminds them there's a cord attached.

You're the one to ask. Is there a reason the RS room has the two mic jacks connected as a "Y" instead of going to individual mic inputs on the amp? Each connector has it's own wire going to the amp, but for some reason they're tied together on the back of the amp instead of separate inputs. The reason I ask is if we put a mic in the instructor, I think they're still going to want a handheld mic for the participants.

Getting back to headsets, we did have a sister who felt strongly enough about it that she paid out of her own pocket to get 4 of them for a stake RS musical skit they put on. It made all the difference.


I posted a comment already, but as soon as a pushed submit, I thought better of it. so here's attempt two, which is hopefully a better on brevity and clarity.

As the various design teams throughout the world design meetinghouses, we attempt to:
Meet the needs of the members, Be mindful of the widow's mite (both in current and future costs), and maintain high standards for building quality, which present a standard image and meet local and international building codes.

With these in mind we try to envision everything a member might want to do with a building, and then we step back and decide what most want to do, and from that what is it that is most central and important. In every case, this involves choices, we could have more mic jacks, or wireless systems, but would have to give something up, perhaps wi-fi, or a window.

Now that I've addresses the generalities of the design, I think we can tackle the specif questions you have.
If we had wireless headsets, we wouldn't have lapels, and by and large people are more comfortable with lapels than a headset, so we have headset options.

The RS room jacks are paralled, because we don't have the controls in the room to make use of discrete mic inputs, and adding those is a large cost relative to the room and the system. In the end, the room was not intended to have both a audience, and presenter mic. That being said, even thought the inputs are paralleled, they can both be used at the same time, though you may have to turn down the room volume to eliminate some feed back issues.

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Re: Wireless Microphones

Postby StevePoulsen » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:44 pm

russellhltn wrote:
StevePoulsen wrote:If the problems persist you, could try to get them to use the Wired Lapel Mic, after that, the wireless seams like a dream.

We've got wired lapel lying around. Not sure who ordered them. I guess we could try it and see if lapel even works. My concern is that it will increase the trip hazard. It's easy to forget a lapel and start walking around. Currently, they're using a hand-held which I think reminds them there's a cord attached.

Oops, I should have clarified this better, The sound quality is not going to be better with the corded mic, just the user experience. Some times what we need to be happy with what we have is to see clearly what we could have instead.

russellhltn
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Re: Wireless Microphones

Postby russellhltn » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:25 pm

StevePoulsen wrote:
russellhltn wrote:You're the one to ask. Is there a reason the RS room has the two mic jacks connected as a "Y" instead of going to individual mic inputs on the amp? Each connector has it's own wire going to the amp, but for some reason they're tied together on the back of the amp instead of separate inputs. The reason I ask is if we put a mic in the instructor, I think they're still going to want a handheld mic for the participants.


The RS room jacks are paralled, because we don't have the controls in the room to make use of discrete mic inputs, and adding those is a large cost relative to the room and the system. In the end, the room was not intended to have both a audience, and presenter mic. That being said, even thought the inputs are paralleled, they can both be used at the same time, though you may have to turn down the room volume to eliminate some feed back issues.

Separate mic controls would be nice, but I see that as a separate feature. I thought perhaps someone was being clever in that two identical mics being plugged in would likely result in a 3dB drop - just about what you'd need to avoid feedback with a second mic. The problem comes when you have two non-identical mics, one could be impacted more than the other, while any feedback issue could be fixed with the existing system volume control.
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craiggsmith
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Re: Wireless Microphones

Postby craiggsmith » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:43 am

I must not be understanding something. We don't have controls on any mic inputs, the controls are in the pre-amp (which we can't control). And you should never have two inputs connected together.

Every stake conference for the past several years the visiting authority has requested a wireless mic, and often they don't request it ahead of time so we're scrambling. They just assume we'll have one. I don't know why there is such a big disconnect between the side that says what we should have (ecclesiastical, MHT, etc) and the people who pay for and install it (facilities). OK, I do know, but I don't agree that it should exist.

We have several old wired lavaliers and one is used often for RS as they have some older sisters with hearing problems and a very quiet teacher, but they are very cumbersome and the speaker tends to trip over the cord since they don't have the control you have when you're holding a mic.

As I mentioned in my previous post I bought a wireless handheld that went with the wireless lavalier we already had. In the previous conference a visiting GA was walking around the congregation asking people questions and it was awkward for him to hold the lavalier. Since we didn't get a new receiver it wasn't as expensive. I knew one existed as the case already had an extra spot for the handheld. I don't think we can use them both simultaneously though -- or can we? I haven't tried, just assumed we couldn't.

The one thing I hate about the AT2000 is that the XLR output and the 1/4" output are both line level. So you have to do a careful sound check and adjust the output level. Really stupid design; I've worked with many wireless systems and all were line level on the 1/4" and mic level on the XLR.

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Re: Wireless Microphones

Postby michaelfish » Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:14 am

Really stupid design; I've worked with many wireless systems and all were line level on the 1/4" and mic level on the XLR.

I don't agree.

With regards to the Audio Technica 2000 receiver, the ability to push the XLR output control to +9 dBV is an advantage.

Some building's microphone jacks are preset to a low level, due to the buildings 'hot' mics.

The receiver's ability to adjust the output beyond line level compensates for this issue, allowing for proper gain of the wireless microphone.

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Re: Wireless Microphones

Postby quintonrhq » Fri May 02, 2014 10:48 pm

I would add my recommendation regarding the Audio-Technica ATW2000 series. The units are AA battery driven (+). Have a good number of UHF channels. Excellent range and audio performance. Compatible XLR connection into the building system without a crab. Lowest price point for this capability. You can pay less but a poor product is no bargain. I have purchased 6 of these over the years, 4 lavaliers and 2 handhelds for several buildings. This is just a step below a full theatre system.
There is certainly a mission creep with wireless. A local stake was recently asked to provide 4 lavaliers and 4 handhelds for a colonel authority training session. Visitors somehow assume that all of this is on hand and ready to go. We try and discourage the 'Jerry Springer' style of audience interaction.

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Re: Wireless Microphones

Postby StevePoulsen » Thu May 08, 2014 8:39 am

Thank You for the recommendations, we are constantly looking at the equipment that we provide.

In regards tot he equipment requested by the general authorities, I would encourage you to contact your FM group, they have been given specific direction on how and when to provide this equipment, as well as reporting methods for its usage. They also have the ability to reduce the costs by sharing the extra equipment over a larger area, instead of purchasing the same equipment over and over for every meetinghouse a GA might visit.


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