Spending more than necessary

Discussions around meetinghouse sound systems, microphones, assisted listening devices, and translation equipment
michaelfish
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Spending more than necessary

Postby michaelfish » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:17 am

I can understand the need for 1st class quality equipment when it comes to church-wide A/V equipment, but I'm outraged when one pays more than TEN times more than what is necessary.

I can purchase a box to convert an unbalanced line level audio signal to a balanced low-level microphone signal from Amazon for 10 bucks. See the PDC21.

Or the FM Group can order the EJ2 for $142 from EM Tech Electronics for your building. (I know that's the list price, but I'll be shocked if the actual price paid is less than $50)

Why?

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jbtork
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Re: Spending more than necessary

Postby jbtork » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:40 am

I don't think I can provide an adequate answer to your question.
All I can tell you is that price is one thing out of many that is looked at when meetinghouse equipment is selected. Things like features, form factor, functionality, durability of an item, can it be used in multiple situations, quantity of product availability all these things and more are considered.
Be assured that we are keenly aware that we are spending Sacred Funds, anytime money is spent on behalf of the Church, it is done prayerfully and with the guidance or the Spirit.
Bob Torkelson
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michaelfish
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Re: Spending more than necessary

Postby michaelfish » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:10 am

Be assured that we are keenly aware that we are spending Sacred Funds, anytime money is spent on behalf of the Church, it is done prayerfully and with the guidance or the Spirit.


Yes, I have the same attitude and reverence for tithing and Stake funds and thus the reason to ask regarding this particular item.

Our stake purchased 4 of these Pyle Pro direct boxes for $41 (one for each building and an extra in the stake clerk's office). Once we added cables for $2.99/ea, this device was the perfect solution for getting line-level audio into the building sound system.

Aside from missing an audio cable and bag, the difference in features, form factor, functionality, durability, that is used in multiple situations, and the quantity of product availability all seem (IMO) equal when comparing to EM Tech's product.

..but the savings was approximately 90% by purchasing from a non-church vendor.

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marianomarini
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Re: Spending more than necessary

Postby marianomarini » Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:31 am

I don't know wich is american's, or church's officers, spending attitude.
Here in Italy many poeple believe that this equation, almost always true, can be reverse: more quality = most cost.
In reality rarely most cost = most quality.
The price of goods depends from many factors, and quality, I sadly said, is not the most important. Almost all digital equipment (at least here in Italy) are made in China (R.O.C. to be precise). Same component e almost always same mother board. It will be not surprising if factory it self is the same!

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Re: Spending more than necessary

Postby michaelfish » Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:15 am

...and isn't amazing how the quality of all products has improved over those of years ago.

When I was I a kid, anything that came from Japan was junk, now it is respected and even sought after. In the 60's, it was normal to see cars and trucks junked after 100 k miles, but now it's not uncommon for vehicles to get a quarter of a million miles on them...and still hold together.

The same thing applies to electronics, which depreciate in monetary value so quickly. Does everything have to be new, or purchased for 10 times the price as a competitive brand?

When I spend Stake funds I try to get the best value for the dollar. For instance, purchases do not HAVE to be new. If I can get something that meets ALL of the qualifications for the application, and can find one used for a third of the price, well...that's why some stake have 3 perfectly good used Sony EVI-D70's cameras. If they had purchased through the church, they would have only been able to afford one. And at the rate technology is improving, the used Sony EVI-D70's will have been retired and replaced long before they go bad (especially since they are only used a few times each year).

What if the church had a Deseret Industries type resource available to find and test used equipment, which we could purchase from? Even if half of all purchases were bad (not likely), it would still be cheaper than purchasing new. In reality purchases from sources such as those on eBay have very high satisfaction reputations, and if a product is not as described, there is even a good chance for a satisfactory resolution.

...just a thought

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Re: Spending more than necessary

Postby mevans » Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:56 pm

I suppose a potential advantage of buying through the church is standardized equipment, which could mean that replacement units and parts are readily available worldwide, there is standardized FM group training, and maybe even online member training, etc. I don't know if that's a consideration for the church or not. I would think if that were the case that the church might maintain a refurbishment center for fixing broken technology and redeploying it to the units if it isn't outdated. Sometimes that's a more cost-effective route. I don't know all the circumstances in the church.

When I worked for a global company, we pretty much maintained the same IT infrastructure worldwide. It made it easier for the awake tech to deal with the problem wherever it was in the world. We might keep some common standardized parts we might keep on hand, etc. But that was for things like US $20K servers where it's cost effective to replace parts. For things like cameras, PCs, etc., that might not make sense, as the cost is low.

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Re: Spending more than necessary

Postby drepouille » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:51 am

Just before stake conference began yesterday morning, I had a brother lean over to me and ask me when I thought the Church would install LCD TVs in every classroom, so they wouldn't have to roll them around the meetinghouse on carts. I told him probably never, since TVs are still too expensive, and the risk of theft too high.
He replied that the cost of buying and mounting TVs in every classroom would be small in comparison to the cost of a new meetinghouse. (His meetinghouse is about three years old.)
Dana Repouille, Plattsmouth, Nebraska

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gregwanderson
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Re: Spending more than necessary

Postby gregwanderson » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:00 am

drepouille wrote:He replied that the cost of buying and mounting TVs in every classroom would be small in comparison to the cost of a new meetinghouse. (His meetinghouse is about three years old.)


...to which I reply, "So what?" The church still doesn't have an endless supply of funds. This speaks to a greater attitude in our society that says those who have lots of wealth must spend it the way others see fit, so I don't fault that brother for simply being a part of society. He may observe now that the church paid a huge price to build the local chapel but, then again, that building was made to last. Unless he moves or the church experiences a lot of growth in his neighborhood then he might not be in a ward with a new chapel again in his lifetime.

And, despite how much was paid to build the chapel that one time, isn't it interesting that the annual ward budget is still just a few thousand dollars?

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marianomarini
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Re: Spending more than necessary

Postby marianomarini » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:43 am

drepouille wrote:He replied that the cost of buying and mounting TVs in every classroom would be small in comparison to the cost of a new meetinghouse. (His meetinghouse is about three years old.)

With this attitude Italian Government rised over 2 Thousands Bilions Euros of debit!

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Re: Spending more than necessary

Postby ryanwbrown » Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:16 am

It appears as if Amazon is closing out this product in that it is below distributor price so you got a good deal on the purchase.

Some of the differences between Emtech EJ-2Plus and the Pyle include:
1. The Pyle unit has only three fixed attenuation points for input (0dB, -20dB & -40dB). The EJ-2Plus handles a range of attenuation from -20dB to -100dB.
2. The Pyle unit has an XLR output connector, but the user has to supply his own mic cord when using it.
3. The EJ-2 Plus has the mic cord built-in to the product. The Pyle unit only takes a 1/4" jack for the input, and they do not provide any cables for the unit.
4. The EJ-2Plus is supplied with both RCA to RCA, and RCA to 3.5mm cables, and a nylon pouch for storage. The RCA and 3.5mm connections are much more common connections when using this type of product with a DVD player or a laptop computer.

However, we will continue to monitor the availability of other products to see which makes the most sense in our meetinghouse.


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