Payment of my tithing online

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Amanda Smith-p40
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Payment of my tithing online

Postby Amanda Smith-p40 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:03 am

Hello,
I am a sister from Australia and am inactive. However I have been paying my tithing online via Internet Banking from the BPay card that everyone in the ward was issued two years ago.

I am wondering if the CRN reference number would still be valid considering I am 'inactive'? I suspect this is my member number?

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:07 am

I only know how it's done in the US, and I'm not sure what the CRN number is.

Your membership number remains valid even if you are inactive. In fact, Church headquarters would have no idea that you were inactive. That's not reported to them. Only the local unit knows that.

Your membership number would become invalid only if: 1) You had your name removed from the church records, 2) You were reported deceased or 3) You were excommunicated. From what you've indicated, I don't think any of those apply.
Have you searched the Wiki?
Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

Amanda Smith-p40
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Postby Amanda Smith-p40 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:10 am

RussellHltn wrote:I only know how it's done in the US, and I'm not sure what the CRN number is.

Your membership number remains valid even if you are inactive. In fact, Church headquarters would have no idea that you were inactive. That's not reported to them. Only the local unit knows that.

Your membership number would become invalid only if: 1) You had your name removed from the church records, 2) You were reported deceased or 3) You were excommunicated. From what you've indicated, I don't think any of those apply.
The CRN just stands for Customer Reference Number, but in regards to the church I suspect this would be my member number.

As long as my payment is referenced to me, that is all that matters.

BPay is just a standard electronic payment system in Australia that links customers of banks and financial institutions with organisations. Here are the church numbers: http://www.bpay.com.au/consumers/bpay/billersearch.aspx?q=LDS%20Church

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:18 am

Amanda Smith wrote:Here are the church numbers: http://www.bpay.com.au/consumers/bpay/billersearch.aspx?q=LDS%20Church


Very interesting. The Ward Missionary Fund is listed. That option is not available to us here in the US, at least not for electronic transactions. We can do it if we cause a check to be created and sent to the Bishop.
Have you searched the Wiki?

Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

Amanda Smith-p40
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Postby Amanda Smith-p40 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:22 am

RussellHltn wrote:Very interesting. The Ward Missionary Fund is listed. That option is not available to us here in the US, at least not for electronic transactions. We can do it if we cause a check to be created and sent to the Bishop.
Yeah well no checks are posted here as everything is pretty much done in an electronic way. BPay is just an electronic clearing house.

From what I know, the ward clerk just prints off a payment advice and knows the money is "in the bank" so to speak.

What I like about it is that you cannot pay tithing from a "credit" account, only from a savings or cheque account.

I just like paying my tithing... but cant do it in person at the moment as I'm inactive.

lajackson
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Postby lajackson » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:16 am

Amanda Smith wrote:From what I know, the ward clerk just prints off a payment advice and knows the money is "in the bank" so to speak.

I just like paying my tithing...


This seems to be an excellent way of making donations electronically. I would be happy to see such a system made available in the U.S.

I would feel confident that, whatever the CRN is, it will still give you credit in your name for your contributions. And, in any event, you most certainly will receive all of the blessings of paying tithing that the Lord has promised.

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mkmurray
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Postby mkmurray » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:55 am

lajackson wrote:This seems to be an excellent way of making donations electronically. I would be happy to see such a system made available in the U.S.

Agreed, I would like to see this kind of thing too.
lajackson wrote:I would feel confident that, whatever the CRN is, it will still give you credit in your name for your contributions. And, in any event, you most certainly will receive all of the blessings of paying tithing that the Lord has promised.

So to me, it sounds like the CRN is not really an identifier of membership within the Church's records. It sounds like an identifier within the financial system called BPay, especially where the C stands for Customer. So with that being said, it's hard to tell what's really going on with your account. I would think that if the Church set up these accounts for Australian members, they would try to create accounts that don't go inactive as I'm sure they anticipated there would situations much like yours. But it sounds like the actual management of these financial accounts may be more in the hand of BPay than the Church.

My suggestion would be to first contact your local branch president or bishop about this. Perhaps they have access to the system in a way that they can verify that your payments are being accredited to your actual financial records in the Church's databases. Here in the US, if you pay electronically to Church Headquarters, the local ward or branch doesn't get any indication that you have paid tithing or other offerings. Hopefully with your specialized system, it is different.

If your local leaders don't have access to this information, then it might be a good idea to call the Church's Australian Area Office. I'm not exactly sure how you would find their contact information; perhaps someone else here on the forums could guide you with how to do this?

If that doesn't work either, perhaps you could call Church Headquarters in Salt Lake City? There is a toll-free number. I know this seems kind of desperate, but someone in Church leadership at the local level or here in the US must know about this system you are talking about that the Church set up and how it works.

I've thought about suggesting you contact BPay, but I can just imagine in my mind them assuring you that of course the funds were guaranteed to be delivered to the Church. In my mind, you need to verify that the Church got the funds, but more importantly that they were credited to your specific financial accounts in the Church's own databases.

Hope this is helpful. Also, I hope someone else here on the forums will be able to help fill in the blanks for contacting the Australian Area Office and perhaps also which phone number at Church Headquarters might be the right one.

techgy
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Postby techgy » Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:52 am

I don't have the information to contact the Australian office directly, but the following web site might be helpful. Perhaps you can start by contacting a church facility close to you and they can give you that information. Contacting your Bishop or Branch president may also provide you with the Area Office number. At the top right corner of the following web site is a "Feedback" link that you might use to obtain some help.

http://www.lds.org.au/

russellhltn
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Postby russellhltn » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:34 am

mkmurray wrote:So to me, it sounds like the CRN is not really an identifier of membership within the Church's records. It sounds like an identifier within the financial system called BPay, especially where the C stands for Customer.


I think it's a number that BPay uses to inform the recipient whose account is to be credited. In the case of the US system, that is the membership number.
Have you searched the Wiki?

Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

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mkmurray
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Postby mkmurray » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:21 am

RussellHltn wrote:I think it's a number that BPay uses to inform the recipient whose account is to be credited. In the case of the US system, that is the membership number.

Ok, I can see how that could be...

Amanda, without revealing the CRN number, is it in the following format?

###-####-####, where each # symbol is a number (and occasionally a letter on the last digit).


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