Image and Attachment User Agreement

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WayneMcK
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Image and Attachment User Agreement

Postby WayneMcK » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:15 pm

What does the Newsletter User Agreement, in regard to adding images and/or attachments, really mean and why doesn't it say it.

I was under the impression that if I went here:

https://www.lds.org/search?q=baptism+im ... ains=image

Such church provided images were available for me to use for church use, such as lessons, baptismal programs or even in our Newsletter.

But the Newsletter User Agreement clearly forbids this, as I'm neither the author or own the content or can I contact the people in the photos for their permission.

Also, it forbids using the Newsletter as a conduit to spread letters from the 1st Presidency, such as this one:

https://www.lds.org/church/news/first-p ... g?lang=eng

as again, I am not the author and do not own the content. Of course I could paraphrase the letter, but the way the letter is quoted in the above link seems to be a much more appropriate way to convey the message.

So if that is the intent of the User Agreement, to forbid the inclusion of official church material, then OK, but if not, why doesn't the User Agreement make it clear that it's regarding material obtained from outside church sanctioned sources.

The Help content - Privacy Guidelines, are not much help either as they tell you all the Don'ts without any Do's. The Wiki offers no guidelines either.

PS I appreciate that this may sound pedantic, and if every possible scenario was covered we'd end up with a User Agreement that is as long as Microsoft/Facebook/iTunes ToC which are so long they're rarely read. So short and plain English is good, but still, I think it would be possible to encourage/approve church sourced material and still keep the User Agreement short. At the very least, the Help should clarify the situation regarding images/content sourced from offical church websites/manuals.

jdlessley
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Re: Image and Attachement User Agreement

Postby jdlessley » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:55 pm

The baptism images and the First Presidency letter are governed by the Rights and Use Information for the site. While you are not the author and owner, you have been given restricted permission to "view, download, and print material from this site only for your personal, noncommercial use unless otherwise indicated."

If you really want a legal reading as to what constitutes personal use, and you want to ensure you are protected from violating either the Rights and Use for the images and text of the letter or the Newsletter User Agreement, then contact the Church's Intellectual Property Office at 801-240-3959 or 1-800-453-3860, ext. 2-3959, or by e-mail at cor-intellectualproperty@ldschurch.org.

In my opinion you should not have a problem posting images or content found on LDS.org on another LDS.org page, the Newsletter, provided you do not modify the pictures or the content of letter text. It is always good practice to provide source credit when using images or text from someone else, even when the material is found on the same website.

A better approach, in my opinion, for the First Presidency letter would be to include a link to the letter rather than include it as an attachment.
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?

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Re: Image and Attachment User Agreement

Postby WayneMcK » Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:41 am

It is my opinion too that it 'shouldn't' be a problem, which brings me back to my original question, why is the User Agreement worded in such a way to be far more restrictive than the Rights and Use policy i.e. you own AND have permission, why doesn't it just require 'you have permission' ?

I guess I'll do like everyone else. Assume they don't really mean what they say.

Thanks.

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Re: Image and Attachment User Agreement

Postby jdlessley » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:06 pm

This is the Newsletter User Agreement:
By providing content and photos I acknowledge that: 1) I am the author and owner of the content and photos; and 2) I have the permission of all individuals noted or portrayed in the content and photos to share the content and photos in the Ward/Branch Newsletter (or if the individual is a minor, that I have obtained the permission of the parent or guardian of the minor to share such content)


The two items addressed in the agreement are photos and content. Both are subject to copyright laws. Copyright laws of many countries, broadly speaking, are similar. Yet there are important differences. The Newsletter User Agreement is a reminder of copyright limitations to which we must abide. It is not practical to restate copyright laws as they exists in each country. The Newsletter User Agreement merely reminds us of some of those limitations.

A person should consider the copyright laws of their country when posting content or photos in the Newsletter. Copyright laws are considerably more detailed, and I suspect more restrictive, than the words used in the Newsletter User Agreement.

I agree that the words "author and owner" appear to be severely restricting. I take them in the context of copyright law as to who has the rights to use and publish.
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?

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Re: Image and Attachment User Agreement

Postby WayneMcK » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:52 pm

jdlessley wrote:I agree that the words "author and owner" appear to be severely restricting. I take them in the context of copyright law as to who has the rights to use and publish.

Which of course is the Catch22 the User Agreement creates. Copyright laws are basically about ownership, they're suppose to be about providing rights for non-owners to copy, giving non-owners limited rights to use the material.

So copyright law is for people who don't author or own, but the User Agreement specially says you can only use material you author and own.

The complex copyright laws of any country could be easily covered if the User Agreement said:

I acknowledge that: 1) In relation to any material subject to copyright I am in full compliance with such copyright; and 2) I have permission…

I read the User Agreement in the context of how would a computer program handle it. I'm in an International District where 75% of the members, English is their second language. In my Branch 95% of the members, English is their second language. All our services, LDS Tools etc, is in English (although I appreciate they can access them in their own language - but the members are super keen to improve their English to improve job prospects) I live in an area where the demographic are known for their increabile ability to rote learn - thinking outside the box, no so good. So when the computer (their brain) reads 'I am the owner' the result is no, and the output is - can't use.

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Re: Image and Attachment User Agreement

Postby russellhltn » Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:49 pm

WayneMcK wrote:1) In relation to any material subject to copyright I am in full compliance with such copyright;

You wouldn't believe how many people think if it's on the Internet, "it's free to copy" and other false ideas about what "fair use" is.

I think it's simpler to say either you own it/wrote it or you have permission.
Have you searched the Wiki?
Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

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Re: Image and Attachment User Agreement

Postby WayneMcK » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:12 pm

russellhltn wrote:You wouldn't believe how many people think if it's on the Internet, "it's free to copy" and other false ideas about what "fair use" is.

I think it's simpler to say either you own it/wrote it or you have permission.

I don't think you checked where I'm posting from. I live in Downtown Piracy. Those people don't read such agreements, they just tick the box and go. I'm more concerned about those members who actually take time to read it, and leaving them with a feeling that they are doing the right thing, not 'gee I don't own the photo of the Temple, is it OK'.

Still your wording says OR not AND, and that would bring the wording much closer to what I believe the intent is.

I have emailed the Church's Intellectual Property Dept suggesting that the User Agreement could be better worded.

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Re: Image and Attachment User Agreement

Postby WayneMcK » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:42 pm

This was the response from the Church Intellectual Property Dept with regard using the Church's online material:
We need you to complete the appropriate request form. If you have not filled out a request form, please go to the "Rights and Use Information" page on lds.org http://lds.org/legal/terms?lang=eng and fill out the request form. Then resubmit your request with the completed form.

When we receive request forms, we respond as soon as we can. Please note, however, that noncommercial requests may take 2-4 weeks, and commercial requests may take 4-6 weeks

Seems, even ignoring the author/ownership issue, the requirement to submit a request every time you want to source some Church material is so bothersome, you may as well go with a picture of your cat.

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Re: Image and Attachment User Agreement

Postby russellhltn » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:49 pm

WayneMcK wrote:you may as well go with a picture of your cat.


Just as long as you were the photographer. ;)
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Re: Image and Attachment User Agreement

Postby WayneMcK » Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:14 am

I've had a further email from the Church Intellectual Property team which states:

We are having our Legal Team review this concern. Thank you for bringing it to our attention.


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