PROBLEMS WITH AUTO FILL IN LESSON SCHEDULE

Discussions about the Lesson Schedules Tool at lds.org.
hollywelch
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PROBLEMS WITH AUTO FILL IN LESSON SCHEDULE

Postby hollywelch » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:54 pm

As per "Setting Up Lesson Schedules" in help menu
Step 1: Add Events
Step 2: Add Classes (without selecting a lesson manual)
Step 3: Activate Classes
Step 3B (not in help instructions but necessary): Go back to Events and select classes affected by specific events so the lessons will be postponed for that week (Ward Conference or Primary Program Practice)
Step 4: Add lessons for each class - Auto fill not working, makes me add each lesson individually. Results are the same without Step 3B.

failproof
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Re: PROBLEMS WITH AUTO FILL IN LESSON SCHEDULE

Postby failproof » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:03 pm

hollywelch wrote:As per "Setting Up Lesson Schedules" in help menu...
Step 2: Add Classes (without selecting a lesson manual)


I didn't see "(without selecting a lesson manual)" in the Setting Up Lesson Schedules help page.
That said, for the types of events you are talking about, where they don't affect all classes, there is no good way around this issue yet. The auto populate happens on class creation, not at the point the lesson manual is added. If you don't add a manual when you create the class, you'll have this problem no matter whether your events are created already or not. It's on the radar of things to be worked out in future releases, but for now you will be stuck changing each week for classes that have these types of events.

I sort of got around it with ward conference by a adding all my events, and marking them as applying to all classes, including ward conference. Then I added only the classes that were affected by ward conference. Before proceeding with other classes, I went back to the ward conference event and unchecked the All check box, leaving the newly created classes checked. Then I added all the other classes that were affected by my other events (stake and general conferences.)

This only worked for me because ward conference was the only event I entered that didn't affect all classes. If I had multiple events affecting only some classes and they overlapped on which classes they applied to, this solution would not have worked.

jdlessley
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Re: PROBLEMS WITH AUTO FILL IN LESSON SCHEDULE

Postby jdlessley » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:57 pm

failproof wrote:I sort of got around it with ward conference by a adding all my events, and marking them as applying to all classes, including ward conference. Then I added only the classes that were affected by ward conference. Before proceeding with other classes, I went back to the ward conference event and unchecked the All check box, leaving the newly created classes checked. Then I added all the other classes that were affected by my other events (stake and general conferences.)
This is a good work-around technique.
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?

hollywelch
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Re: PROBLEMS WITH AUTO FILL IN LESSON SCHEDULE

Postby hollywelch » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:20 am

failproof wrote:I didn't see "(without selecting a lesson manual)" in the Setting Up Lesson Schedules help page.


I was simply paraphrasing what was described in step 2: to "add classes", adding the lessons was in a later step

The "Help" instructions need to be changed. The problem occurs when we are instructed to:
Step 1: "add events"
Step 2A: "add classes"
Step 2B: "ACTIVATE CLASSES"
Step 3: "add lessons"

If you activate the class BEFORE you add the lessons, AS INSTRUCTED, the auto fill WILL NOT work regardless the type of events.

hollywelch
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Re: PROBLEMS WITH AUTO FILL IN LESSON SCHEDULE

Postby hollywelch » Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:28 am

jdlessley wrote:
failproof wrote:I sort of got around it with ward conference by a adding all my events, and marking them as applying to all classes, including ward conference. Then I added only the classes that were affected by ward conference. Before proceeding with other classes, I went back to the ward conference event and unchecked the All check box, leaving the newly created classes checked. Then I added all the other classes that were affected by my other events (stake and general conferences.)
This is a good work-around technique.


Something to consider is the Primary. They need skipped lesson time for Easter and Christmas (which have specific lessons located at the end of the manual which need to be manually added in the appropriate week) and for the Primary Program Practice which needs to be skipped. I set those up first since we can only do this with one group of classes. Then I manually added Ward Conferences to Priesthood, RS, and Youth classes because they have a more flexible schedule with the 1st and 4 Sundays already open and the youth having one topic per month.

jdlessley
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Re: PROBLEMS WITH AUTO FILL IN LESSON SCHEDULE

Postby jdlessley » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:21 am

They are still working on getting how events affect lessons update out. The work-around described in the Lesson Schedules Help is only provided there so that manual editing of an entire year is not necessary. Any other work-around people can come up with and post in the forum is helpful and appreciated until the update is released. They were hoping to have the event update included in a release before the end of the year. But the priority for work had to be put into getting the new youth curriculum in instead.
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?

hollywelch
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Re: PROBLEMS WITH AUTO FILL IN LESSON SCHEDULE

Postby hollywelch » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:58 am

JD, I understand all to well the problems with how events affect the lessons and I appreciate all the work being done. The problem I'm reporting is that the Lesson Schedule Help instructions have a significant error. If we follow the instructions as written in the Lesson Schedules Help (activating the classes BEFORE adding the lessons) it disables the autofill and requires us to manually edit the entire year. If the instructions are changed to "Activate Classes" AFTER the lessons have been added then the autofill will work as described in the help. The instruction needs to be changed. I don't know who to inform about this so I'm doing it here on this forum.

failproof
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Re: PROBLEMS WITH AUTO FILL IN LESSON SCHEDULE

Postby failproof » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:59 pm

Maybe I'm misreading your original post... I thought you were saying that the results are the same with or without step 3B, which indicates to me that the help is not wrong when it comes to auto population. Keep in mind that auto population only works completely with events that were created first and checked as applying to All classes. Based on your title and the red highlight, it seemed the concern was the auto population.

Now, if you are saying "well, that is all fine and dandy, but what do I do with events that don't affect all classes?" then to some degree, you are correct, that help item is missing a step where you check off the classes that these types of events apply to. This help item was obviously not written for this scenario, it is specifically intended for classes where you want the auto-population to occur. Based on the title of the help page, I would agree with you that the help is not correct, since it does not really specify that it is intended for the scenario where events apply to all classes so auto-populate will work. I'm not sure where we would go to provide feedback on the help pages... there doesn't appear to be any feedback links on the help pages.

A note for what your red highlight was showing you:
The problem here is that, there is no way to make auto population work correctly for those types of events/classes. The catch is that the event has to be created first and applied to the class at that time, so that when the class is created (which is the point that the auto populate happens, not when it is activated and not when the manual is added if you don't add it at time of class creation) then the events and lessons will all be in place as desired, with no lessons skipped. Since the only way to apply an event to a class before the class is created is to check the All option, this doesn't work for the events you are talking about. You will, unfortunately have to edit most, if not all weeks for those classes, no matter what you do right now.

jdlessley
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Re: PROBLEMS WITH AUTO FILL IN LESSON SCHEDULE

Postby jdlessley » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:02 pm

hollywelch wrote:If we follow the instructions as written in the Lesson Schedules Help (activating the classes BEFORE adding the lessons) it disables the autofill and requires us to manually edit the entire year. If the instructions are changed to "Activate Classes" AFTER the lessons have been added then the autofill will work as described in the help. The instruction needs to be changed. I don't know who to inform about this so I'm doing it here on this forum.
I think I see two areas of confusion. When I look at those instructions they way you did I can see how you can think there are additional steps, or sub-steps, involved. There are only five basic steps without sub-steps - "Step 1: Remove the Default Classes", "Step 2: Add Events", "Step 3: Add Classes", "Step 4: Add Lessons for Each Class", & "Step 5: Add Teachers for Classes and Lessons".

I can can also see where the purpose for writing the instructions for "Setting Up Lesson Schedules" was not clear in stating that following the steps was to accomplish one purpose. That purpose was to provide an order of creating events first so that when classes are created the event will not replace a lesson but rather postpone lessons. The special cases such as those you describe for certain primary classes is not covered, and cannot be covered, by the way Lesson Schedules is currently programmed without manual editing. The programmers are aware of this limitation and will include an update in some future release.

So I agree that the instructions need editing to clear up some areas of confusion. The instructions in "Setting Up Lesson Schedules" needs to address why the steps are ordered they way they are ordered. Classes can be added before events, but in doing so the affect events have on lessons is different than if events are added first. The reason steps 1, 2, & 3 are in the sequence they are in is to permit lessons to be postponed. When an event is added after a class is added, the event replaces the lesson on the event date. Step 4 is added only as a reminder that lessons may need to be added. For example, the lessons on the first, fourth and fifth Sundays for RS, EQ, and HPG are not filled by the manual lessons when the class is added. Step 5 is also a reminder of additional information that can be added. Both Steps 4 & 5 must logically come after, or during, Step 3. Step 4 should come after Step 2 only to preclude the event replacing the lesson and voiding all the work done in setting up the lesson on the date of the event.

The instructions also need to be clear that links to additional information are not sub-steps but rather links to more detailed information on that particular task. For example the bullets found below Step 3, "Add Class", "Activate Class", and "Specify How Events Affect Classes", are not sub-steps. They are links to more detailed information about those topics that are related to adding classes. The sentence introducing those additional information links states: "See the following for detailed steps on performing each of these tasks:". That could be reworded to indicate they are not sub-steps. Additionally, those links could be titled "How to Add a Class", "How to Activate a Class", and "How Events Affect Classes".

I will send a PM to the church employee who is responsible for the LDS.org Tools help instructions for him to take a look at this thread and see what he can do.
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?

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johnsonth
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Re: PROBLEMS WITH AUTO FILL IN LESSON SCHEDULE

Postby johnsonth » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:52 pm

Thanks for looping me into this thread. I found the questions and responses valuable in updating the help. I updated the page about Setting Up Lesson Schedules.

I see where I went wrong in the help. I outlined the third step as "Adding Lessons." As a result, holly didn't select the lesson for her class when setting it up. Without the lesson selected, auto-fill was disabled.

I adjusted the instructions for step 3 to say "Adjust the Lessons as Needed." When setting up the class, you definitely want to select the manual for the class. This triggers the auto-fill to populate your lesson dates with chapters from the manual.

I also inserted instructions about excluding classes not affected by events.

If you have a moment, can you review the page here: https://ue.ldschurch.org/ldsapphelp/lessonschedules/index.html#main_topics/setting_up_lesson_schedules/setting-up-lesson-schedules.htm. Did I clarify the process more? Does this make it easier to set up lesson schedules?

By the way, two big features are coming in the next release: A Regenerate Lesson Sequence button. We hope this will be a quick fix to the unintuitive interaction between events and classes. (2) Allow class instructors to edit their classes.


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