Delete courses

Discussions about the Lesson Schedules Tool at lds.org.
rgisraelsen
New Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:14 pm

Delete courses

Postby rgisraelsen » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:09 pm

There should be an option to delete every course. I have access to delete Sunday School courses, but not others. I presume this is because I am marked as only having admin privileges for Sunday School. There should be an option to flag a course as needing to be changed/deleted that will then notify an admin for that course. For example, I am in a YSA ward, so we have no youth or primary classes, but those are cluttering up the lesson scheduler.

jdlessley
Community Moderators
Posts: 6526
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:30 pm
Location: USA, TX

Postby jdlessley » Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:28 pm

rgisraelsen wrote:There should be an option to delete every course.
There is if you have admin rights.

rgisraelsen wrote:There should be an option to flag a course as needing to be changed/deleted that will then notify an admin for that course.
You could just contact (by telephone, e-mail, text message, ???) an administrator and ask them to delete what is not needed. Why add additional programming complexity for a one time task?
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?

rgisraelsen
New Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:14 pm

Postby rgisraelsen » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:19 pm

jdlessley wrote:You could just contact (by telephone, e-mail, text message, ???) an administrator and ask them to delete what is not needed. Why add additional programming complexity for a one time task?


I don't know who has admin rights and who doesn't. It's not worth the normal user's time to go in and try to figure that out. The end result is that the site is cluttered and hard to navigate, so people won't use it.

jdlessley wrote:Why add additional programming complexity for a one time task?


Why add features that normal people would like to see? The whole point is to make it user friendly so that people will want to use the product.

jdlessley
Community Moderators
Posts: 6526
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:30 pm
Location: USA, TX

Postby jdlessley » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:30 pm

rgisraelsen wrote:I don't know who has admin rights and who doesn't.
The Administrators for Lesson Schedules article in the Lesson Schedules help says "[b]y default, administrators include bishoprics, clerks, executive secretaries, and ward website administrators."

rgisraelsen wrote:It's not worth the normal user's time to go in and try to figure that out.
I can't help, nor can the programmers help, those who are not willing to take any time to read the help documentation when there is a question.

rgisraelsen wrote:The end result is that the site is cluttered and hard to navigate, so people won't use it.
To me, adding a list of organizations that have no bearing on any action you can take is cluttering the site. In this case the decision was made that if you are an organization leader you only need to see information that is necessary for you to set up your organization classes.

rgisraelsen wrote:Why add features that normal people would like to see? The whole point is to make it user friendly so that people will want to use the product.
I think you meant to say "why not add features...". That may happen if there is value added. There are limited programming resources and priorities for those resources. This feature request to add an option flag more than likely will be overcome by the use of the program. Once units set up the lesson scheduler I can see no need for all this programming effort.
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?

rgisraelsen
New Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:14 pm

Postby rgisraelsen » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:55 am

First of all, I'm just trying to make suggestions to improve the product. Getting snarky rejections to every suggestion doesn't make the community want to give feedback. I typically have good experiences interacting with Church Tech people. I don't know if you work for the Church or are just a community volunteer, but you're not helping on that count.

As far as attempting to engage in meaningful dialogue about improving the product, here goes:

I am in the Sunday School presidency. I do all the lesson scheduling for Sunday School in my ward. I currently use a Google docs spreadsheet that for each date lists the classroom, the lesson number, and the teacher. It works fantastically, is easy to administer, easy to read, and easy to use. For me to switch to a new product, there has to be added value - otherwise I'll stick with what I've got, because it's already pretty good. That's our starting point.

If the Church develops a new lesson scheduler, I'll automatically be willing to give it a shot. I want to use tools provided by the Church. But if they don't work well, or are hard to use, or are missing a feature, then it doesn't fit my needs, and I won't use it. I'm pretty sure that will be pretty standard across the target market for this tool.

In this thread, the feature request was to provide a way to delete any course on the "Manage Class Schedules" page. All the classes that were created by default unnecessarily clutter the view with classes that will never be taught in my ward. It makes sense that since I am not an administrator for anything outside Sunday School, I cannot delete all the courses. I'm ok with that. However, it would be nice if there was something on the screen that told me that. All I, the normal user, know is that I see a whole list of classes that shouldn't be there. I only see three "X"s in the list - the classes that are marked as Sunday School. I know the others need to be deleted, but I do know that I apparently can't do it.

There are several options here. First, the most obvious would be to not create any classes by default. Let admins create their own classes. It's better to have no class at all than one that was created by default and never updated to be accurate.

Another option would be to do what I suggested earlier, which would be to make a button (in place of the "X") that allows me to send a message to an administrator to notify them of a suggested change for a listed course - it could be to update a title, make it inactive, or delete it.

A third option would be to have a question mark or similar icon that displays a help dialog box when hovered over or clicked. It could say something like, "Why can't I make changes here? Only bishoprics, clerks, executive secretaries, and ward website administrators have admin rights to make changes to this course. Contact any of them to request changes."

I think any of these changes would be an improvement, and really wouldn't involve a lot of extra programming. Even if they did, the point is to make a usable system that meets the needs of those that use it. Wishing that you had smarter users, rather than improving your product to work the way that people expect it to work, is a sure way to guarantee that users will not switch to your product.

jdlessley
Community Moderators
Posts: 6526
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:30 pm
Location: USA, TX

Postby jdlessley » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:46 pm

rgisraelsen wrote:First of all, I'm just trying to make suggestions to improve the product. Getting snarky rejections to every suggestion doesn't make the community want to give feedback. I typically have good experiences interacting with Church Tech people. I don't know if you work for the Church or are just a community volunteer, but you're not helping on that count.
I am sorry you feel you or your ideas are being rejected. That is not my intent. Since this is a forum, posts are open to comments and discussion by the rest of the community. We do not all necessarily agree with one another. By discussing the issues we have with technology or procedures we can find the "better" solution. What appears to be a good idea to a person in one area of the world or in one calling creates problems for others. If we do not discuss these issues or ideas there is little chance that the best product will be delivered to meet everyone's needs.

I am not a Church employee. I feel it is my obligation to provide constructive dialog on any matter presented in these forums. I do so when I have information or an opinion. While our perspectives and ideas may differ in regard to this application, the programmers and decision makers will consider each.

Please do not take my comments to be personal. I want the best product. To get that, I respectfully request the opportunity to disagree.

rgisraelsen wrote:It makes sense that since I am not an administrator for anything outside Sunday School, I cannot delete all the courses. I'm ok with that. However, it would be nice if there was something on the screen that told me that.
I agree for your situation. By that I mean any organization leader who has management responsibility for any classes should be able to differentiate what they have control over and what they do not.

Unfortunately the single page of classes an organization leader sees is a combination of organization leader management and regular ward member view of classes. Since it provides this combination then a note or annotation would help.

rgisraelsen wrote:All I, the normal user, know is that I see a whole list of classes that shouldn't be there. I only see three "X"s in the list - the classes that are marked as Sunday School. I know the others need to be deleted, but I do know that I apparently can't do it.

There are several options here. First, the most obvious would be to not create any classes by default. Let admins create their own classes. It's better to have no class at all than one that was created by default and never updated to be accurate.
IMO, having a template from which to work appears to be simpler and quicker for setup. It is easier to delete a class by clicking one icon than it is to create a bunch of classes from scratch.

rgisraelsen wrote:Another option would be to do what I suggested earlier, which would be to make a button (in place of the "X") that allows me to send a message to an administrator to notify them of a suggested change for a listed course - it could be to update a title, make it inactive, or delete it.
As you have noted organization leaders as well as administrators have the ability to manage classes. That is essentially two groups of leaders who have the opportunity to magnify their calling and manage lesson scheduler classes. Since the lesson scheduler is not currently easily accessed or known by others than those who frequent these forums or the LDSTech site there are going to be quite a number of administrators and organization leaders who are not aware changes need to be made. But once the program becomes familiar, easily accessed, and is used regularly, there should be little need to suggest changes.

This suggested feature is what I would consider to be a low priority on the programming resources that are limited and in high demand. While it may appear to be useful now or on initial setup for a new ward/branch, how often would it really be effectively used? As little as I envision such a feature would be used I can also envision a scenario that could create headaches for the administrators and organization leaders if any member of the ward could at any time submit suggested changes for listed courses. I can see a need to limit who would have this notification capability - perhaps only ward leaders?

rgisraelsen wrote:A third option would be to have a question mark or similar icon that displays a help dialog box when hovered over or clicked. It could say something like, "Why can't I make changes here? Only bishoprics, clerks, executive secretaries, and ward website administrators have admin rights to make changes to this course. Contact any of them to request changes."
This seems to be a good choice. The only addition to that list would be "and the organization leaders responsible for the class", or something along those lines.
JD Lessley
Have you tried finding your answer on the LDS.org Help Center page or the LDSTech wiki?


Return to “Lesson Schedules”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest