Temple Recommend - digital device scanning at temple?

Discussions around the iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch versions of the LDS Tools Application.
rklindquist
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Temple Recommend - digital device scanning at temple?

Postby rklindquist » Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:22 pm

I was curious if LDS Tools or something like Apple Wallet functionality might soon be available for temple recommends.

I no longer carry a wallet as my iPhone case can carry my drivers license and a couple needed bank cards. All other Allstate, Costco and similar cards are stored in my Apple Wallet or in an app like Stocard.

This would especially help when I travel on business and have time to visit a local temple.

Any ideas on such digital device functionality or scanning at temples?

russellhltn
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Re: Temple Recommend - digital device scanning at temple?

Postby russellhltn » Sun Jun 12, 2016 1:25 pm

We typically don't hear about things in development until they are deployed or at least in beta testing. I've not heard of anything like that.
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sbradshaw
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Re: Temple Recommend - digital device scanning at temple?

Postby sbradshaw » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:01 am

It would require you to have your phone on when you go up to the recommend desk, and the hallways inside the temple could be blocked with people turning off their phones. But I'd like to see something like this in the future.
Samuel Bradshaw • Interested in church apps and sites, creative recordkeeping, clerk support, YSA wards and stakes, LDS music, Vineyard at BYU, and online service.

russellhltn
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Re: Temple Recommend - digital device scanning at temple?

Postby russellhltn » Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:37 am

I think my main concern would be that in the case of a screen display, it would be too easy to forge.

So it would probably have to be something more like the credit card with some kind of interaction between the phone and the temple system. That would be quite a bit of development for something of minimal church benefit.
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Re: Temple Recommend - digital device scanning at temple?

Postby lajackson » Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:28 pm

russellhltn wrote:I think my main concern would be that in the case of a screen display, it would be too easy to forge.

I would imagine if such a system were to exist that the display would include a code that could be read at the temple and checked by Church computers, just as the bar code on a recommend is checked today. I would wonder if it could be the same simple bar code, or if it would have to be one of those QR Codes (square things) for a scanner at the temple to correctly read it.

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Re: Temple Recommend - digital device scanning at temple?

Postby russellhltn » Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:50 pm

lajackson wrote:I would imagine if such a system were to exist that the display would include a code that could be read at the temple and checked by Church computers, just as the bar code on a recommend is checked today. I would wonder if it could be the same simple bar code, or if it would have to be one of those QR Codes (square things) for a scanner at the temple to correctly read it.


Too easy to forge. If nothing else, just grab a screen shot from the app and now anyone can display it. I think that method is largely limited to customer cards or things that can be revoked before consumed (like a boarding pass or concert seats). Keep in mind, with the paper recommend, it's not the barcode that gets you into the temple - it's the entire form. Something you can't easily duplicate with a laser printer.

I'd think any such app would be something more dynamic and secure - like the credit card companies use. But even they have a different risk factor and are willing to take a certain amount of loss if it means more people will use their product.

Note that OP still carries an ID and a few bank cards. So I don't think a temple recommend is that big a burden. Again, I'm not seeing the same kind of effort/benefit to the church for such a thing. It would be cool, but that's not what drives Priesthood decisions. Better security or streamlining the recommend desk process would be better selling points.
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aebrown
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Re: Temple Recommend - digital device scanning at temple?

Postby aebrown » Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:45 pm

lajackson wrote:I would wonder if it could be the same simple bar code, or if it would have to be one of those QR Codes (square things) for a scanner at the temple to correctly read it.

The current scanners are laser scanners, which work great at scanning paper, but will not work at all on scanning images on a screen. A QR code would be scannable from a phone's screen, but that would only be possible if all the scanners in all the temples were replaced. That implies a significant hardware cost in addition to the development costs -- just one more significant hurdle in addition to the excellent points made by RussellHltn.

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Re: Temple Recommend - digital device scanning at temple?

Postby sbradshaw » Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:01 pm

I think a regular barcode could be read just as well as a QR code, as long as the barcode is good quality (generated electronically or a good scan) and the phone isn't unusually reflective. I've been to airports with my boarding pass on my phone and they're able to scan it fine with the laser scanner by the gate.

The trick to authentication is to have single-use barcodes (or NFC codes) that are generated on a church server and have a time-out limit. Like russellhltn mentioned, it would require some development work.

Here's another question: Would people scan their own recommends, or hand their phone to the other person? Some phones are bulky, attached to keys, etc. or could be easily broken if dropped, so I think scanning your own recommend would make the most sense – but it would be a change in procedure there.
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aebrown
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Re: Temple Recommend - digital device scanning at temple?

Postby aebrown » Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:06 pm

sbradshaw wrote:I think a regular barcode could be read just as well as a QR code, as long as the barcode is good quality (generated electronically or a good scan) and the phone isn't unusually reflective. I've been to airports with my boarding pass on my phone and they're able to scan it fine with the laser scanner by the gate.

I wasn't talking necessarily about all laser scanners -- I was talking about the kind that are used in temples right now. And they don't read images on screens. The scanners used at airports are quite different.

But this is all not particularly relevant. The issues raised by RussellHltn make it highly unlikely that this would be implemented anytime soon, even if the technical hurdles were insignificant.

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Re: Temple Recommend - digital device scanning at temple?

Postby russellhltn » Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:26 pm

sbradshaw wrote:The trick to authentication is to have single-use barcodes (or NFC codes) that are generated on a church server and have a time-out limit.

An additional problem - how would you authenticate the app? How would we stop anyone with a publicly downloaded app (like LDS Tools) and a stolen LDS Account from getting into the temple?
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