Ordinance information - who can see?

Discussions around the Android version of the LDS Tools application
bballrob
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Ordinance information - who can see?

Postby bballrob » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:36 pm

I use Apple iOS and as the bishop I have access to my ward members' ordinance and other detail information such as member number, etc.

My first counselor has a samsung tablet that runs android OS. He can't seem to get this detailed information. Is this due to his callin, or a platform limitation? My clerk,also uses apple iOS and does have access to the same detailed information I do.

Any light you can shed on this is appreciated.

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aebrown
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Re: Ordinance information - who can see?

Postby aebrown » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:41 pm

bballrob wrote:My first counselor has a samsung tablet that runs android OS. He can't seem to get this detailed information. Is this due to his callin, or a platform limitation? My clerk,also uses apple iOS and does have access to the same detailed information I do.

According to Handbook 1, Section 13.6, 5th paragraph, only the bishop and the clerk are to see membership records. So the mobile and web tools are simply enforcing this handbook policy. That explains why you and the clerk can see this detailed information, but your counselor cannot.

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Re: Ordinance information - who can see?

Postby jonesrk » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:32 pm

Just to confirm. I'm an assistant clerk and I can see the ordinance information on android.
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russellhltn
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Re: Ordinance information - who can see?

Postby russellhltn » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:47 pm

jonesrk wrote:Just to confirm. I'm an assistant clerk and I can see the ordinance information on android.

What kind of assistant? I'd fully expect the membership to see it. Possibility just "assistant". But I think we've seen cases before where "finance" is excluded.
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Re: Ordinance information - who can see?

Postby jonesrk » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:51 pm

russellhltn wrote:
jonesrk wrote:Just to confirm. I'm an assistant clerk and I can see the ordinance information on android.

What kind of assistant? I'd fully expect the membership to see it. Possibility just "assistant". But I think we've seen cases before where "finance" is excluded.

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bballrob
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Re: Ordinance information - who can see?

Postby bballrob » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:16 pm

aebrown wrote:
bballrob wrote:My first counselor has a samsung tablet that runs android OS. He can't seem to get this detailed information. Is this due to his callin, or a platform limitation? My clerk,also uses apple iOS and does have access to the same detailed information I do.

According to Handbook 1, Section 13.6, 5th paragraph, only the bishop and the clerk are to see membership records. So the mobile and web tools are simply enforcing this handbook policy. That explains why you and the clerk can see this detailed information, but your counselor cannot.

I looked at the handbook and I don't see this. I see where it says membership records should nt be given to anyone besides a clerk or the bishop, but there are times when Counselors need access, and they have access on the computer in the clerks office, so why not on heir mobile devices?

scgallafent
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Re: Ordinance information - who can see?

Postby scgallafent » Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:03 pm

bballrob wrote:I looked at the handbook and I don't see this. I see where it says membership records should nt be given to anyone besides a clerk or the bishop, but there are times when Counselors need access, and they have access on the computer in the clerks office, so why not on heir mobile devices?

Having had "access on the computer in the clerks office" will likely be something that people struggle with as MLS membership functions migrate to Leader and Clerk Resources and LDS Tools. Between the access levels in MLS being fairly coarse and permissions being set inappropriately, many users are used to having more access than policy allows.

Looking at the current data access table, it looks like bishopric counselors should be able to see the membership record number. They cannot see ordinance information.

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sbradshaw
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Re: Ordinance information - who can see?

Postby sbradshaw » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:38 pm

There could hypothetically be a distinction made between "membership record" and "membership information" – the same as the distinction between "membership record" and "individual ordinance summary," the individual ordinance summary being a bit less protected (i.e. a member can have or see a copy of his own). What does the membership record include that the individual ordinance summary doesn't, anyway?

I know there's not much leverage on this thread to affect policy, but maybe IOS items could be more widely accessible, restricting just the "membership record"-unique items to the bishop and clerk(s).

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Re: Ordinance information - who can see?

Postby russellhltn » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:59 pm

sbradshaw wrote:What does the membership record include that the individual ordinance summary doesn't, anyway?


IIRC, on a normal record, it's "prior ward". But then a normal record doens't have annotations for disfellowshipment and such.

Somehow, I don't think the IOS distribution would be much better. There's still a lot of sensitive information that's probably not needed for most leaders to do their job.
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Re: Ordinance information - who can see?

Postby drepouille » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:11 am

aebrown wrote:According to Handbook 1, Section 13.6, 5th paragraph, only the bishop and the clerk are to see membership records. So the mobile and web tools are simply enforcing this handbook policy. That explains why you and the clerk can see this detailed information, but your counselor cannot.


I called Local Unit Support. The tech said there may be situations in which a counselor would require access to membership records in MLS. For example, if he needed information to perform an interview prior to an ordinance (baptism or ordination) while the bishop is unavailable. I think that is reaching a bit for justification, since the clerk could print an IOS or a partially-filled ordinance record prior to the interview.

Some MLS functions are available based upon privileges granted to the user. Other functions seem to be granted based upon the user's calling. For example, there are some reports (according to the LUS tech) that only bishops can see in MLS, regardless of their MLS privileges.

So the basic question remains as to whether bishopric counselors should be granted the View Membership or Edit Membership privileges in MLS. If so, then what is the rationale for doing so?
Dana Repouille, Plattsmouth, Nebraska


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