LCR automatically releases counselors?

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mevans
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LCR automatically releases counselors?

Postby mevans » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:08 am

I've noticed that when the "president"* of an organization is released or moved, that LCR seems to automatically release the "counselors,"* too. Overall, this makes sense, but there seem to be some unintended consequences. For example, I've seen situations where the "president" moves and the counselors are still functioning while a new "president" is called. It's not always easy to call a new "president" quickly, as it may involve shuffling other organizations and may involve the stake or authorization from church headquarters (such as a new bishop). Meanwhile, the counselors can function, but LCR is releasing them.

I haven't found in Handbook 1 or Handbook 2 where this policy is stated (that doesn't mean it's not there; it just means I can't find it). I think in principle, it's intended as a help, but doesn't always work properly.

For example, we recently had a "president" move and it appears that LCR released his counselors when his membership records moved out. Maybe a human did it, but I doubt it. A few years ago we had a bishop in our stake who lost his job and found a new job that required relocation. His counselors continued to serve for several weeks until a new bishop could be called. Would LCR release that bishop's counselors now?

* President includes other titles like High Priest Group Leader and Bishop; Counselor includes other titles like Assistant.

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aebrown
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Re: LCR automatically releases counselors?

Postby aebrown » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:58 am

mevans wrote:I haven't found in Handbook 1 or Handbook 2 where this policy is stated (that doesn't mean it's not there; it just means I can't find it). I think in principle, it's intended as a help, but doesn't always work properly.

See Handbook 2, 19.5:
Handbook 2, 19.5 wrote:When a president, bishop, or high priests group leader is released, the counselors or assistants are released automatically. Others who hold positions in the organization, such as clerks, secretaries, and teachers, are not released automatically.

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Re: LCR automatically releases counselors?

Postby rontilby » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:01 am

I can confirm that the software is following the handbook and "automagically" "releasing" counselors in a presidency when the president's membership moves out of the ward. It happened recently with our Elders Quorum. The president's membership was pulled by his new ward, and the first counselor in the Elders Presidency reported that he had lost his access rights in LCR and LDS Tools. As a practical matter, I had to reinstate the two counselors in LCR so that they could continue to function administratively for a couple of weeks until the presidency was reorganized.

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Re: LCR automatically releases counselors?

Postby jonesrk » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:59 pm

mevans wrote:
For example, we recently had a "president" move and it appears that LCR released his counselors when his membership records moved out. Maybe a human did it, but I doubt it.

The system did it.
mevans wrote:A few years ago we had a bishop in our stake who lost his job and found a new job that required relocation. His counselors continued to serve for several weeks until a new bishop could be called. Would LCR release that bishop's counselors now?

Bishops are one of the few callings that aren't automatically released when their records move. When the bishop is released (by a human), then the counselors are automatically released.
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Re: LCR automatically releases counselors?

Postby russellhltn » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:32 pm

I can agree with releasing counselors when a human makes the change, but I wonder if the auto-release of the counselors when the president moves out isn't something that should be reviewed.
Have you searched the Wiki?
Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

mevans
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Re: LCR automatically releases counselors?

Postby mevans » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:53 pm

russellhltn wrote:I can agree with releasing counselors when a human makes the change, but I wonder if the auto-release of the counselors when the president moves out isn't something that should be reviewed.


I think it makes sense to leave the counselors if the membership record is pulled. Maybe put a special notation and block changing the counselors without entering a new president if we want more business rules. The problem is that the remaining counselors are trying to run things until a new leader is called, but then they may get blocked from LCR, can't update HT/VT, etc.

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Re: LCR automatically releases counselors?

Postby russellhltn » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:39 am

mevans wrote:The problem is that the remaining counselors are trying to run things until a new leader is called, but then they may get blocked from LCR, can't update HT/VT, etc.

Exactly. It takes time to replace a Bishop. In some cases, the answer is to realign boundaries. (I've seen it happen.)

Now, one standard position I'm really curious about is "Acting Ward Leader". I can't say as I've seen anything in the Handbook about that position. It might offer a solution, although it would still require some manual intervention.
Have you searched the Wiki?

Try using a Google search by adding "site:tech.lds.org/wiki" to the search criteria.

jonesrk
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Re: LCR automatically releases counselors?

Postby jonesrk » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:35 am

russellhltn wrote:It takes time to replace a Bishop. In some cases, the answer is to realign boundaries. (I've seen it happen.)

Bishops don't get auto released when they move. They will only be released when the new bishop is called and entered.
russellhltn wrote:Now, one standard position I'm really curious about is "Acting Ward Leader". I can't say as I've seen anything in the Handbook about that position. It might offer a solution, although it would still require some manual intervention.

Acting Ward Leader can be used when the Bishop is no longer able to serve (dies, moves (sometimes this doesn't cause this), etc). Most often it is the Stake President that is put in as the Active Ward Leader. To use that you have to contact GSC and have them make the change.
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Re: LCR automatically releases counselors?

Postby lajackson » Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:30 am

jonesrk wrote:Bishops don't get auto released when they move. They will only be released when the new bishop is called and entered.

True, but since other leaders and counselors do get auto-released, it may be worth looking at that situation. At the very least, it is an inconvenience, but at worst, the organization has to function without any online tools during the week or two it takes for the bishop to get a new president called, or the several weeks it sometimes takes for the stake to get a new priesthood leader approved and called.

As an example, the elders quorum president of our YSA branch will get married next Friday. His home ward will pull his membership record on Sunday so they can call him and his wife to new callings. The YSA branch will ask the EQ first counselor to run the quorum while they wait for the next quorum president to be approved by the high council (two weeks away), called (another few days), and sustained (the following Sunday).

So the remaining counselors who are trying to run the quorum will be without any online tools for several weeks.

I realize, of course, that the ideal situation is to plan ahead, but in one ward where I lived we stopped releasing elders quorum presidents who said they were moving because three of them were still in the ward.

A workaround is to have the clerks support the acting counselor while a new president is being called. And I actually remember the days when we did all of this without computers, so I get some measure of enjoyment when I watch these younger leaders become reacquainted with pencils or pens and 3 x 5 cards. [smile]

mevans
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Re: LCR automatically releases counselors?

Postby mevans » Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:56 pm

We had to temporarily put a counselor who got auto-released in as the priesthood leader for a quorum so he could report on home teaching :) People thought he was the new president, but we just told them there's there so he can do his work while a president is being called.


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